RFC: QNX4 vs. QNX6

QNX Newsgroups (Archives) qdn.public.qnxrtp.os
181

<camz@passageway.com> wrote in message news:aeouij$5cl$1@inn.qnx.com…

Have you thought of digging up the marketing information on Ditto? Are
you
aware that ditto was bundled with development kits, but other was was an
actual PRODUCT that QSSL sold. Customers actually PAID HARD, COLD CASH
for
the ability to have enough licesnses for an entire network. The business
case that made it viable for QNX2 and QNX4 still apply. Go dig them up
and
stop re-inventing the wheel by trying to perform research that has already
been done (and proven to be correct due to the sales of ditto licenses on
QNX2 and QNX4).

Considering that the market research is 10-15 years old for a different
product, I would say that there is a good chance that requirements will have
changed. Either way, I’m afraid you’ll have to humour us because, unless
you’re planning to directly pay us for custom work, any development request
needs to be examined for it’s merits based on the current market situation.

You’ve done a good job of convincing me that ditto is useful and hopefully
I’ll do as good of a job convincing the powers that be to let us do the
work.

cheers,

Kris

182

It seems that if someone reads this thread, there is brand new “market
research”.

“Kris Warkentin” <kewarken@qnx.com> wrote in message
news:aeqgk6$m6v$1@nntp.qnx.com…

camz@passageway.com> > wrote in message news:aeouij$5cl$> 1@inn.qnx.com> …
Have you thought of digging up the marketing information on Ditto? Are
you
aware that ditto was bundled with development kits, but other was was an
actual PRODUCT that QSSL sold. Customers actually PAID HARD, COLD CASH
for
the ability to have enough licesnses for an entire network. The
business
case that made it viable for QNX2 and QNX4 still apply. Go dig them up
and
stop re-inventing the wheel by trying to perform research that has
already
been done (and proven to be correct due to the sales of ditto licenses
on
QNX2 and QNX4).

Considering that the market research is 10-15 years old for a different
product, I would say that there is a good chance that requirements will
have
changed. Either way, I’m afraid you’ll have to humour us because, unless
you’re planning to directly pay us for custom work, any development
request
needs to be examined for it’s merits based on the current market
situation.

You’ve done a good job of convincing me that ditto is useful and hopefully
I’ll do as good of a job convincing the powers that be to let us do the
work.

cheers,

Kris

183

Indeed. I was just trying to flesh out my development roadmap proposal and
look at all the good stuff we got.

They should give me the money they were going to pay the market research
firm…:wink: wakes up from nice dream

Kris

“Bill Caroselli (Q-TPS)” <QTPS@EarthLink.net> wrote in message
news:aeqh6u$d6v$1@inn.qnx.com…

It seems that if someone reads this thread, there is brand new “market
research”.

“Kris Warkentin” <> kewarken@qnx.com> > wrote in message
news:aeqgk6$m6v$> 1@nntp.qnx.com> …
camz@passageway.com> > wrote in message news:aeouij$5cl$> 1@inn.qnx.com> …
Have you thought of digging up the marketing information on Ditto?
Are
you
aware that ditto was bundled with development kits, but other was was
an
actual PRODUCT that QSSL sold. Customers actually PAID HARD, COLD
CASH
for
the ability to have enough licesnses for an entire network. The
business
case that made it viable for QNX2 and QNX4 still apply. Go dig them
up
and
stop re-inventing the wheel by trying to perform research that has
already
been done (and proven to be correct due to the sales of ditto licenses
on
QNX2 and QNX4).

Considering that the market research is 10-15 years old for a different
product, I would say that there is a good chance that requirements will
have
changed. Either way, I’m afraid you’ll have to humour us because,
unless
you’re planning to directly pay us for custom work, any development
request
needs to be examined for it’s merits based on the current market
situation.

You’ve done a good job of convincing me that ditto is useful and
hopefully
I’ll do as good of a job convincing the powers that be to let us do the
work.

cheers,

Kris
\

184

Xiaodan Tang wrote:

Richard Kramer <> rrkramer@kramer-smilko.com> > wrote:
One thing that we do frequently with QNX4 is dial a customer’s site
to perform some maintenance chore or another that may require several
hours. We may start processes on more than one console, then hang up.

Some time later we can dial back in and ditto those consoles to check
progress, respond to a prompt or whatever. Can that sort of thing be
done without ditto?

Well, there is “on -t”,

on -t con1 app1 2>&1 >/tmp/log.con1 &
on -t con2 app2 2>&1 >/tmp/log.con2 &
…
I don’t have QNX6 to play with, but with QNX4 on -t … won’t let

me “grab” a process that was started and left running on a console.
vedit would illustrate what I am talking about.

Richard

But again, I still vote for ditto > :slight_smile:

-xtang

Richard

Kris Warkentin wrote:

Ultimately what is required to get the work done is to see exactly what
people want and how badly they want it. Since people quite often don’t
really know what they want, it’s better to look at what they need. That is,
“what problem are we trying to solve”?

At the top level the problem is, “Getting access to a remote machines
console”.

Questions that arise from that:

“Do you need write access or is read access sufficient?” Given that there
are other ways to execute processes on a remote machine, perhaps just being
able to read the console (especially if we were to cache a few pages) might
be enough.

“What level of security is expected?” Should it be safe to use over the
internet or strictly for internal use?

“What are the likely situations that this will be used for?” We have the
situation of the lab and the tech support. Are there others?

I’m sure there are others. I’m hoping that we can properly specify exactly
what the problem is, which will allow us to properly specify the solution.
We may find that parts of ditto will not be required because other
mechanisms exist. So far, most usage scenarios that I’ve seen come down to
“I want to see what is happening/has happened on the console” which is a
smaller problem to solve than the solution ditto provides. Perhaps a way to
start devc-con with a certain cache size and then an interface to retrieve
that information would be sufficient.

cheers,

Kris

185

“Kris Warkentin” <kewarken@qnx.com> wrote in message
news:aedho6$q6o$1@nntp.qnx.com…

Attention QNX users.

I am compiling a wish-list for utilities development over the next 6
months
to a year. I’m mostly looking for things that existed in QNX4 but don’t
in
QNX6 but I’m also taking general utils feature requests.

So, if there are any utilities you wish you had or enhanced functionality
to
existing utilities, now is the time to let me know so I can try to get
them
on the road map.

How about utility ticksize?

cheers,

Kris

186

So, if there are any utilities you wish you had or enhanced functionality
to
existing utilities, now is the time to let me know so I can try to get
them
on the road map.

Sorry it took so long to think of this one. A further application of the KIS
principle.

Would it be possible to have the remote functionality of rtc reinstated so
that it is possible to synchronise the clocks of nodes over a QNet network?
Yes I know there are some very nice and very complicated ways of doing it
over TCP/IP that will give millisecond sync, but all I want is the nodes to
be within 1 sec of each other and I don’t want to use TCP/IP.

Jim

187

Thank you for tip to ‘fsysinfo’ through ‘devctl’.

We (Pavol Kycina and me) made program ‘fsysinfo.c’ for getting some
informations from device (it is attached).
There are ‘s_syscall_read’ and ‘s_syscall_read’ in the structure ‘fs_stats’.
Although we are reading and writing data from/to ‘/dev/hd0’ (a work with
files on the harddisk),
‘s_syscall_read’ and ‘s_syscall_read’ are 0 for everytime - nothing change.
They are changing only with a direct work with file ‘/dev/hd0’.

Is any solution of this problem?
We want to increase ‘s_syscall_read’ / ‘s_syscall_read’ (or other variables)
with every read/write from/to HDD.
Thanks.

Stano Ivan




“John Garvey” <jgarvey@qnx.com> wrote in message
news:aepkv4$16r$1@nntp.qnx.com…

Pavol Kycina <> kycina@microstep-hdo.sk> > wrote:
Is there any equivalent for fsysinfo?
I use it to get info about number of writes to compact flash devices.

Unofficially (ie I may change it > :wink: > …

sys/dcmd_blk.h
sys/fs_stat.h

DCMD_FSYS_STATISTICS or DCMD_FSYS_STATISTICS_CLR

Open the raw disk device and send it this devctl() … for your specific
example you’d look at “s_buf_wphys” …

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`
end

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M;&%N:3H)-C )# I#0I0;V-E="!214%$(‘9O;&%N:3H), DH,"D-"E!O8V5T
M(%=2251%(‘9O;&%N:3H), DH,“D-”@T*<U]N86UE7W!O<VAI=’,Z"3 )# I
M#0IS7VYA;65?;F5G:&ET<SH), DH,"D-"G-?;F%M95]M:7-S97,Z"3 )# I
M#0HM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM
M+2TM+2TM+2TM+2T-“D9Y>BX@8VET86YI92!Z(&1I<VMU.@DQ,#,Y"2@P0T
M1GEZ+B!Z87!I<R!N82!D:7-K.@DV.34)#(I#0I#86-H92!C:71A;FEE('H@
M9&ES:W4Z"3(W.3(Q"2@P0T0V%C:&4@>F%P:7,@;F$@9&ES:SH),3 U,@DH
M,"D-"E!R:6%M>2!)3R!P<FES='5P.@DP"2@P0T1GEZ:6-K92!C:'EB>3H)
M"3 )# I#0H-“E!O8V5T($]014X@=F]L86YI.@DS"2@P0T4&]C970@4U1!
M5”!V;VQA;FDZ"3 )# I#0I0;V-E="!.04U%('9O;&%N:3H),PDH,"D-“E!O
M8V5T($1%5D-43”!V;VQA;FDZ"38Q"2@Q0T4&]C970@4D5!1"!V;VQA;FDZ
M"3 )# I#0I0;V-E=”!74DE412!V;VQA;FDZ"3 )# I#0H-"G-?;F%M95]P
M;W-H:71S.@DP"2@P0T*<U]N86UE7VYE9VAI=’,Z"3 )# I#0IS7VYA;65?
M;6ES<V5S.@DP"2@P0T*+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM
M+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM#0I&>7HN(&-I=&%N:64@>B!D:7-K
M=3H),3 S.0DH,"D-"D9Y>BX@>F%P:7,@;F$@9&ES:SH)-CDU"2@P0T0V%C
M:&4@8VET86YI92!Z(&1I<VMU.@DR-SDR,0DH,"D-“D-A8VAE('IA<&ES(&YA
M(&1I<VLZ"3$P-3()# I#0I0<FEA;7D@24@<')I<W1U<#H), DH,"D-"D9Y
M>FEC:V4@8VAY8GDZ"0DP"2@P0T*#0I0;V-E=”!/4$5.('9O;&%N:3H),PDH
M,"D-"E!O8V5T(%-4050@=F]L86YI.@DP"2@P0T4&]C970@3D%-12!V;VQA
M;FDZ"3,)# I#0I0;V-E="!$159#5$P@=F]L86YI.@DV,@DH,2D-"E!O8V5T
M(%)%040@=F]L86YI.@DP"2@P0T4&]C970@5U))5$4@=F]L86YI.@DP"2@P
M0T*#0IS7VYA;65?<&]S:&ET<SH), DH,"D-"G-?;F%M95]N96=H:71S.@DP
M"2@P0T<U]N86UE7VUI<W-E<SH), DH,"D-"BTM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM
M+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+0T1GEZ+B!C
M:71A;FEE('H@9&ES:W4Z"3$P,SD)# I#0I&>7HN('IA<&ES(&YA(&1I<VLZ
M"38Y.0DH-"D-"D-A8VAE(&-I=&%N:64@>B!D:7-K=3H),C<Y,S()#$Q0T*
M0V%C:&4@>F%P:7,@;F$@9&ES:SH),3 U-0DH,RD-"E!R:6%M>2!)3R!P<FES
M='5P.@DP"2@P0T1GEZ:6-K92!C:'EB>3H)“3 )# I#0H-"E!O8V5T($]0
M14X@=F]L86YI.@DS"2@P0T4&]C970@4U1!5"!V;VQA;FDZ"3 )# I#0I0
M;V-E=”!.04U%(‘9O;&%N:3H),PDH,“D-“E!O8V5T($1%5D-43”!V;VQA;FDZ
M"38S"2@Q0T4&]C970@4D5!1”!V;VQA;FDZ"3 )# I#0I0;V-E="!74DE4
M12!V;VQA;FDZ"3 )# I#0H-"G-?;F%M95]P;W-H:71S.@DP"2@P0T<U]N
M86UE7VYE9VAI=’,Z"3 )# I#0IS7VYA;65?;6ES<V5S.@DP"2@P0T*+2TM
M+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM
(+2TM+2TM#0H
end

188

We (Pavol Kycina and me) made program ‘fsysinfo.c’ for getting some
informations from device (it is attached).

This reminds me, what uu[de|en]code?

disclaimer: I did not look when I was looking at a 6.2 Beta, and now at work we are waiting
for the real CDs. So if they are in 6.2 SE, please ignore.


Tom

189

Thomas Emberson <temberson@softwareremodeling.com> wrote:

We (Pavol Kycina and me) made program ‘fsysinfo.c’ for getting some
informations from device (it is attached).

This reminds me, what uu[de|en]code?
^ about

sorry,
Tom

190

Okay. On the list.

Kris
“Mario Charest” postmaster@l127.0.0.1 wrote in message
news:aera2k$150$1@inn.qnx.com…

“Kris Warkentin” <> kewarken@qnx.com> > wrote in message
news:aedho6$q6o$> 1@nntp.qnx.com> …
Attention QNX users.

I am compiling a wish-list for utilities development over the next 6
months
to a year. I’m mostly looking for things that existed in QNX4 but don’t
in
QNX6 but I’m also taking general utils feature requests.

So, if there are any utilities you wish you had or enhanced
functionality
to
existing utilities, now is the time to let me know so I can try to get
them
on the road map.


How about utility ticksize?

cheers,

Kris
\

191

“Jim Douglas” <jim@dramatec.co.uk> wrote in message
news:aes5jn$jt4$1@inn.qnx.com…

Sorry it took so long to think of this one. A further application of the
KIS
principle.

Would it be possible to have the remote functionality of rtc reinstated so
that it is possible to synchronise the clocks of nodes over a QNet
network?
Yes I know there are some very nice and very complicated ways of doing it
over TCP/IP that will give millisecond sync, but all I want is the nodes
to
be within 1 sec of each other and I don’t want to use TCP/IP.

Take a look at the current docs for rtc. There is an ‘rtc net’ command.

cheers,

Kris

Jim

192

Take a look at the current docs for rtc. There is an ‘rtc net’ command.

Oops! So there is - well hidden as usual.:sunglasses:

Jim

193

That’s our little secret. Hide the features well (like easter eggs) and
then, when people ask for them, we can pull the rabbit out of the hat.
“TADA! It’s already there!” We’re not like some other companies always
going on, “Our software does this, our software does that”. No sir. Very
low key over here.

:wink:

Kris

“Jim Douglas” <jim@dramatec.co.uk> wrote in message
news:aet397$c2s$1@inn.qnx.com…

Take a look at the current docs for rtc. There is an ‘rtc net’
command.

Oops! So there is - well hidden as usual.> :sunglasses:

Jim

194

Stanislav Ivan <sivan@microstep-hdo.sk> wrote:

We (Pavol Kycina and me) made program ‘fsysinfo.c’ for getting some
informations from device (it is attached).
There are ‘s_syscall_read’ and ‘s_syscall_read’ in the structure ‘fs_stats’.
Although we are reading and writing data from/to ‘/dev/hd0’ (a work with
files on the harddisk),
‘s_syscall_read’ and ‘s_syscall_read’ are 0 for everytime - nothing change.
They are changing only with a direct work with file ‘/dev/hd0’.
Is any solution of this problem?
We want to increase ‘s_syscall_read’ / ‘s_syscall_read’ (or other variables)
with every read/write from/to HDD.

Because you have targetted the devctl() at the /dev/hd0 device, these
statistics willl count the number of read() on that device. To count
the number of read() calls at the filesystem level, open a file (the
root or any other file on the filesystem) and send the devctl() there;
it will have the counts you require for that filesystem.

In general statistics involving the cache/physical blocks are mirrored
on both the logical filesystem and the phsyical device statistics …
however there are some cases (metadata writes/bitmap updates) that are
issued against the mountpoint vnode (as opposed to a logical file) and
so show up on the partition layer instead.

Hence, for the question you originally asked, the correct place to get
the exact number of real IO accesses is off /dev/hd0 …

195
  1. Come up with a name location scheme (or similar) that is as good as, or
    better than nameloc so that it is technically possible to configure a
    logical system without regard for the physical network it runs on.

We already have something close to this, with network support and
task start/death messages. It’s part of the Cogent API. No, it’s not
made by QSSL, and yes, we do want you to pay for it, but in terms
of functionality it might do what you want.

Cheers,
Andrew

196

Watcom was probably nice for Intel folks, but they have no solution
whatever for non-Intel platforms, so we don’t care about them.

You are talking nonsense. Watcom have a fully functioning DEC Alpha
compiler - just never released - it is now, it is now part of the open
source. They also have skeletons of PPC and MIPS compilers but they will
need a lot of work. They have had a long history of developing compilers for
different chips ) and that is because of the strict separation ofthe front
end and the back end code generator.
See
http://home.t-online.de/home/howlingmad/watcom_en.html#history

So developing for a different chip would not be hard.

Stephen Howe [TeamSybase]

197

%% “Stephen Howe” <SPAMsjhoweGUARD@dial.pipex.com> writes:

Watcom was probably nice for Intel folks, but they have no solution
whatever for non-Intel platforms, so we don’t care about them.

sh> You are talking nonsense.

Partial nonsense, maybe. But you don’t exactly refute my argument with
loads of ammo: a never officially released port to the alpha and two
ports that you say “need a lot of work” just don’t cut it for my
definition of a “solution”. And probably not QSSL’s either.

So, I’ll stick by my statement in general, although I might word it a
little less apocalyptically in the future.

Call me crazy but my company is not in the business of writing
compilers. Neither is QSSL.

–

Paul D. Smith <pausmith@nortelnetworks.com> HASMAT–HA Software Mthds & Tools
“Please remain calm…I may be mad, but I am a professional.” --Mad Scientist

These are my opinions—Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them.

198

Didn’t Watcom get their start writing compilers for mainframes?
Or did someone just make that up about a decade or so ago?

“Stephen Howe” <SPAMsjhoweGUARD@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:aetu9k$1fk$1@inn.qnx.com…

Watcom was probably nice for Intel folks, but they have no solution
whatever for non-Intel platforms, so we don’t care about them.

You are talking nonsense. Watcom have a fully functioning DEC Alpha
compiler - just never released - it is now, it is now part of the open
source. They also have skeletons of PPC and MIPS compilers but they will
need a lot of work. They have had a long history of developing compilers
for
different chips ) and that is because of the strict separation ofthe front
end and the back end code generator.
See
http://home.t-online.de/home/howlingmad/watcom_en.html#history

So developing for a different chip would not be hard.

Stephen Howe [TeamSybase]

199

Thanks,

Calling READ/WRITE is zero for /dev/hd0 and /dev/hd0t79 (HDD partition).
But any file or folder (for example /tmp, /home/data.txt) returns a number
of R/W calling. It’s OK.

Stano Ivan


Because you have targetted the devctl() at the /dev/hd0 device, these
statistics willl count the number of read() on that device. To count
the number of read() calls at the filesystem level, open a file (the
root or any other file on the filesystem) and send the devctl() there;
it will have the counts you require for that filesystem.

In general statistics involving the cache/physical blocks are mirrored
on both the logical filesystem and the phsyical device statistics …
however there are some cases (metadata writes/bitmap updates) that are
issued against the mountpoint vnode (as opposed to a logical file) and
so show up on the partition layer instead.

Hence, for the question you originally asked, the correct place to get
the exact number of real IO accesses is off /dev/hd0 …

200

“Andrew Thomas” <andrew@cogent.ca> wrote in message
news:aetit3$mvu$1@inn.qnx.com…

  1. Come up with a name location scheme (or similar) that is as good as,
    or
    better than nameloc so that it is technically possible to configure a
    logical system without regard for the physical network it runs on.

We already have something close to this, with network support and
task start/death messages. It’s part of the Cogent API. No, it’s not
made by QSSL, and yes, we do want you to pay for it, but in terms
of functionality it might do what you want.

Thanks for the info - I will look into it, but I still maintain that this is
one of the better features of QNX4 that was sacrificed in the name of
progress.

Jim