I’m very sorry. I have known a number of Stacy’s that were all shes.
“Stacey Abshire” <sabshire@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3B9CAFD8.3040608@yahoo.com…
Well, I am not a she, but a he. Sorry to disappoint you.
Stacey
Bill Caroselli (Q-TPS) wrote:
Ut oh! She dropped the big one! ;~}
OTOH, Stacy, I agree with you.
Mario Charest a écrit :
“Mario Charest” <> mcharest@clipzinformatic.com> > wrote in message
news:9nl65p$33v$> 1@inn.qnx.com> …“Stacey Abshire” <> sabshire@yahoo.com> > wrote in message
news:> 3B9E17D3.4040906@yahoo.com> …
Well, what do you pascifists think about the WTC being hit, and also the
Pentagon by planes… highly unlikely that these are random
crashes…
So now you want to talk about it >> I think it’s sad very sad for lack
of
better words. That won’t make me lose faith in the goodness of humanity.
I
don’t think vengence will do any good, it would just show to the people
that
did this that they were right to do so. People will want vengence,
unfortunately and the cycle will continue. But that’s easy for me to say,
right. I haven’t received a “bomb” on my head, nor did the people that
are
important in my life.
Tonight when I get back from home, I will hog my wife and kids. I will
show to my kids what are the results of intolerance and violence. I will
tell them about the dead people, about the unimaginable suffering this
incident cause. I hope they will be moved, touched deep down in their
heart I hope this will leave an imprint they will remember for their life
time.
I hope they will understand the consequences of violence and choose
never to follow that path.
Don’t believe that Mario, no words to blame this violence, but he who sows the
wind shall reap the whirlwind. Allmost sure that those did that are absolutely
sure that it’s only just and don’t care about 10 or 20 thousands deads.
Maybe they had themself lot of deads before.
Even if we cannot accept that, I hope that US won’t do anything against that,
but it may the door openned for everything!
Regards,
Alain.
Sorry to intrude in a thread.
There is a reason that the French are quite reluctant to admit that helped
the 1939 disaster : there was a sizeable minority of the population, and a
majority of the ruling class and top military executives that considered
Hitler as a potential ally, and that favored his politic views. In 1936
workers and unions had achieved a victory by winning elections, and got a
raise in wages, a limit of the length of the working day, paid hollidays,
etc. and many would say “plutôt Hitler que Blum” which means rather Hitler
than Blum which was (roughly) the labour party leader. I do not invent that,
it was said, written, and the army was more busy fighting “reds” than
preparing for war.
Many a general remembered La Commune, and that the German armies helped
Adolphe Thiers in killing the insurection. When the Germans came in 1940, it
was a good occasion to forbid trade unions, and to cancel all the rights
that elections gave. For instance, when France was invaded Louis Renault was
in the USA. He hurried back to run his factories for Hitler, always pressing
his workers to make more military vehicles, with Fiat or Mercedes markings
so that the Renault factories would not be bombed. Workers and engineers
would try to sabotage the production, but Louis Renault and others would
press more and more to prevent sabotage.
When it fought, the French army was able to stop the German one, even the
fast armored divisions were blocked when the order to fight was given. I
seem to remember of a case where a German armored division was blocked by a
French one for a day and a night, before the Frenches were ordered to cease
fight and let go.
I do not say that the war was lost by deliberate orders, but that the army
was deliberately lead in a state in which, by out of date communications,
contradictory orders, and disorganisation, the defeat was ineluctable. The
generals that saw this situation six month before the attack were either
sacked or ignored.
As for the French population, some resisted, some rejoyced, but most had to
endure and survive as they could.
As for Poland, I might be wrong but I seem to remember that the one month
resistance of Warsaw was when the Russian army retreated and waited for the
Germans to eliminate the insurection that was declared by Stalin’s orders,
when only Britain would send planes to provides weapons and ammunitions. I
do seem to remember that Poland was invaded in a week, because ot Russia’s
attack from behind just when the Pole army was starting to cope with the
speed and violence of the German attack.
To get to the orginal subject : if you do not do it another one shall do.
Many a French said that during trials, and the answer was always “if another
one did, another one would be hanged, today it is you”.
The idea is do what you have to do, but don’t use that poor excuse that
someone will do it anyway. If it feels right, do it, if it feels wrong
don’t.
And if you are wise enough to know for sure right from wrong you are a lucky
man.
“Rennie Allen” <RAllen@csical.com> a écrit dans le message news:
64F00D816A85D51198390050046F80C9B565@exchangecal.hq.csical.com…
Remember that it often is not amount of men/women, but their spirit.
Their readiness and willingness to fight to death. France had much
better economy, supplies and technology than Poland, but polish gave
Hitler more resistance. I believe they held Warsaw for a month. In
Russia it took germans 280 days of siege and several unsuccesfull
attacks to capture Sebastopol (in Crimea peninsula) and there was no
‘cold weather’ factor there. They never managed to capture Leningrad
despite 900 days of siege.I know it is popular (especially amongst non-French Europeans >
characterize the French during W.W.II as “wet noodles”, but (IMO) this
is simply not true. It is certainly true that the French military
command was (almost criminally) unprepared to fight W.W.II, but the
soldiers in the French army have been reported to have fought heroically
in nearly every action for which I have read accounts. In Dunkirk, for
example, fierce (hand to hand combat in many cases) rear actions by the
French played a significant role in slowing the advance of the German
divisions (although these soldiers clearly knew their ultimate fate, and
could have retreated to join the evacuation). Their sacrifice played a
significant role in the success of the evacuation, without which,
Hitler’s rampage over North Africa and the Mediterranean would have gone
largely unchallenged, and with this larger geographic base, the war
could easily have gone the other way (and Leningrad eventually taken, in
however costly a fashion). No, the French military might have made
serious strategic errors, but their willingness to fight should not be
questioned, nor the individual sacrifices of soldiers forgotten or
trivialized. As for the civilian French population, the nature of the
invasion of France was so different than any other situation in W.W.II,
that there simply was not an opportunity to offer any resistance of the
type undertaken in Warsaw or Sebastopol. The French population
undertook a successful program of subterfuge as the only reasonable form
of resistance given the circumstance; while it was not as dramatic as a
seige, it was ultimately quite effective.Rennie
“Maynard Lanting” <mlanting@atsautomation.com> wrote in message
news:3b9e6f9f$1@ats2.sentex.ca…
ok, i see your line of thinking then. What i don’t see is how a country
can
run on those guidelines however.
I don’t either But then again I beleive country is a concept that
will one day dissapear.
Although i suppose that the rules would
then consist of the best possible compromise of the constituents morals
and
values. Hmm.
I’m hoping there will be no rules, at least that what my moral tell me I
should aim for
Your ideas of morality are very individualistic i notice. What do you
believe is the proper response if China attacks Taiwan?
I have absolutely no idea. Let me see, I would give help to
whom every ask for it.
Its ok, let them figure it out because Taiwan has violated
China’s sense of morality?
Taiwan cannot violated China’s sense of morality, only Chinese
can choose to feel their morality was violated.
the Chinese think that proper punishment is to randomly kill say, every
third person. But that is ok to because they believe this to be right and
just? No sarcasm here, i’m just trying to understand.
I’m trying to understand to you know. All I know is that this
cycle of violence, I don’t agree, I’ll kick your ass, I’ll kick yours
because you kick mine. What do you think is going to happen
when the people that did this (althouth the actual perpetrator are
are already dead) will be found and program hang. I would guess
their fellow men or even their children will come back
with a vengence even more devastating. Have you notice that
they don’t seem to care about dying, you can’t scare away
somebody that doesn’t fear death (maybe they could be torture then)
We are all in deep shit.
..
Or maybe you mean that one can do what one believes moral, and it is up to
the one offended to do the punishing, because after all, as you say:
No, it’s up to EVERYONE to decide what they will do.
You are the only one that should decide was is right or wrong for
yourself.
What will you do with that power???
What power?
I believe that we are more advanced than dogs, and i do know about the
social structure of dogs in both the wild and at home from living for the
first 18 years on a very rural farm in Canada.
We do not tolerate tyranny
we have very technological ways of treating injuries, even to those whom
we
don’t know, at least in Canada we have health care for all.
We allo> everyone to marry those whom love, as long as they love us as
well, and
desire the same matrimonial state as ourselves (think if we were dogs,
Mike
Tyson would have a huge harem of terrified women). This is simply some
examples among others i’m sure.
My point is you are evaluating development with your own criteria.
So you are right dogs are more advance given your criteria, but
Dogs can smell things you can’t. Dogs can hear things you can’t.
Most dog would die for their master, I have different criteria
for judging “advancement”.
Human do tolerate tyranny; what have YOU done to stop tyrany?
Human don’t let everyone marry anyone whom love (gay/lesbians)
Health care for all is creating huge problem; the genetic pool is weakening.
Weak people can have children creating even weaker child thus resulting in a
weaker speacies.
I’m playing devil’s advocate there. We could go own forever
debating these thing, You could come up with 1000 of example
to prove a point I could come up with 1000 other to prove otherwise
(just for the exercise).
All in all, I know I’m wrong, but I do the best I can. Knowing I’m wrong
means I will NEVER impose my ways on others. That being said if you
ever hurt my children I will beat the crap out of your sorry ass if you
see what I mean, cause I’m sure I won`t be able to control my
genetic background
“Mario Charest” <> mcharest@clipzinformatic.com> > wrote in message
news:9nln5s$cso$> 1@inn.qnx.com> …So, what are you saying then? It is ok for me to have a “vision”
tonight,
simply part of my religion, and kill all say, oriental males, and rape
all
oriental women because it is part of my religion?You are the only one that should decide was is right or wrong for
yourself.
What will you do with that power???That since i don’t see it as morally wrong, you can’t punish me?
In a nut shell yes. But that is the choice I made, if you feel you need
to
punish someone that doesn’t comply with your own moral that’s all very
fine
too.
The dog analogy may have been a stretch, i see that now, as the alien
one
is
a stretch as well. We are not relative aliens to each other. No
matter
what religion or race, we all share common pains, ailments, sorrows
etc.
I
go so far as to say sharing basic morals. And these MUST be upheld.If that is what you beleive then go for it, I’ll help you if I can.
Or we are no more advanced than dogs.
LOL! in what way are we more advance then dogs???
\
Somebody can come in the US (or anywhere else) with a bottle of
perfume that could be biochemical poison. How the hell can
you deal with that. Apparently these people are ready to die.Washington, the center of the “government” has been hit, one
major symbol of US capability has been obliterated. Quite
frankly I don’t see how it was avoidable. The amount of control
required to prevent this is uncalculable.Thats why, when we find who was responsible and who helped them, they should
feel the might, power and wrath of the United States. We will crush them so
that anyone, ANYONE who thinks about doing this again will remember what
happened the last time.
You do not negotiate with madmen and sick-os.
You DO NOT let cowards get away with garbage like this with out reprisal.
The only problem Isreal has is that they are always “reigned in” by the U.S.
and others. They should be unleashed. Terrorisom SHOULD NOT and I repreat
SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED. It should be crushed.
Kevin Stallard
It is JUST like disciplining a child. If you let your child get away with
it, they will do it again and again and again.
There is no such thing as a different moral code. There is RIGHT and there
is WRONG. End of story. Period.
Kevin Stallard
“Maynard Lanting” <mlanting@atsautomation.com> wrote in message
news:3b9e34bb$1@ats2.sentex.ca…
“Mario Charest” <> mcharest@clipzinformatic.com> > wrote in message
news:9nlb16$60a$> 1@inn.qnx.com> …“Miguel Simon” <> simon@ou.edu> > wrote in message
news:> 3B9E2CAA.8C076F6C@ou.edu> …
Hi…The terrorist attack in NewYork and elsewhere is the reason why we
here
in North America have to go forth and utilize our resources to protect
our nation. Period.It is inexplicable to me how any terrorist people can possibly justify
the lost of innocent lives for whatever fanatic reasons they may
harbor.
It’s making me feel so sad. I looking for something to hold on to:Probably for the same reason researchers implant cancer in
animal to learn about the desease. Because people that do it
things the cause justify the means. It just that this time the
target is human.Still If somebody could create a symbol that express more sadness then
the
often used “;(” I would be using it now.
> (
Miguel.
“inn.qnx.com” wrote:
Some people may say that they just have a different moral code. . . . i
simply don’t see that as acceptable. I find that idea repugnant. Please
tell me you don’t see it that way. . . What did thousands of people from
all
different nations in the World Trade Center do that deserve to be the
brunt
of some terrorist group? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. And they deserve
to
be punished.
\
I do understand now i think. Where you’re coming from anyway. You’re right
in that we’ll never agree, but i think we’re at the point where we say,
“Let’s agree to disagree”. I don’t want to say to much here or we’ll be
wrangling about it, but i must say i love this here line:
That being said if you
ever hurt my children I will beat the crap out of your sorry ass if you
see what I mean, cause I’m sure I won`t be able to control my
genetic background >
People who are self-righteous, holier-than-thou passifists really piss me
off. I hope its safe to say from the above, that this you are not. 
“Mario Charest” <mcharest@nowayzinformatic.com> wrote in message
news:9nlune$h3u$1@inn.qnx.com…
I’m trying to understand to you know. All I know is that this
cycle of violence, I don’t agree, I’ll kick your ass, I’ll kick yours
because you kick mine. What do you think is going to happen
when the people that did this (althouth the actual perpetrator are
are already dead) will be found and program hang. I would guess
their fellow men or even their children will come back
with a vengence even more devastating. Have you notice that
they don’t seem to care about dying, you can’t scare away
somebody that doesn’t fear death (maybe they could be torture then)
We are all in deep shit.
.Or maybe you mean that one can do what one believes moral, and it is up
to
the one offended to do the punishing, because after all, as you say:No, it’s up to EVERYONE to decide what they will do.
You are the only one that should decide was is right or wrong for
yourself.
What will you do with that power???
What power?
All in all, I know I’m wrong, but I do the best I can. Knowing I’m wrong
means I will NEVER impose my ways on others. That being said if you
ever hurt my children I will beat the crap out of your sorry ass if you
see what I mean, cause I’m sure I won`t be able to control my
genetic background >
\
“Kevin Stallard” <kevin@robots.flyingrobots.fly.> wrote in message
news:9nntsh$naa$1@inn.qnx.com…
Somebody can come in the US (or anywhere else) with a bottle of
perfume that could be biochemical poison. How the hell can
you deal with that. Apparently these people are ready to die.Washington, the center of the “government” has been hit, one
major symbol of US capability has been obliterated. Quite
frankly I don’t see how it was avoidable. The amount of control
required to prevent this is uncalculable.Thats why, when we find who was responsible and who helped them, they
should
feel the might, power and wrath of the United States. We will crush them
so
that anyone, ANYONE who thinks about doing this again will remember what
happened the last time.
They must have never heard of Hirosima then.
You do not negotiate with madmen and sick-os.
You DO NOT let cowards get away with garbage like this with out reprisal.
The only problem Isreal has is that they are always “reigned in” by the
U.S.
and others. They should be unleashed. Terrorisom SHOULD NOT and I
repreat
SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED. It should be crushed.Kevin Stallard
It is JUST like disciplining a child. If you let your child get away with
it, they will do it again and again and again.
They must have never heard of Hirosima then.
I wish I didn’t say that, I’m sorry. It was innapropriate.
Sorry to intrude in a thread, but I am not sure about how Mexico feels
from
having been robbed of California, Texas, New Mexico, etc. by a
democratic
country. I’m not sure whether the U.S.A. formally declared war, or
just
considered themselves attacked by the provocations of the mexican army
that
denied the rightful occupation of mexican ground by innocent
americans,
Mexico was not a country, even by the standards of the time (and
certainly not a country by today’s standards), neither was the U.S.A.
The Americas (certainly, until the latter half of the 19th century) were
frontier’s. Frontier’s are characterized as unsettled areas, that are
essentially lawless. Without the rule of law a democracy cannot exists.
period.
but
it seem, from outside, that the U.S. of A. did attack Mexico.
No country, no democracy, hence, not relevant.
Do not feel too bad about it,
Don’t worry I don’t. I didn’t participate, my ancestors did not
participate, and I would not have participated, if I had been alive at
the time. Psychopathic individuals are those most likely to be drawn to
lawless areas (witness the famous outlaws of the time).
France and the U.K. did the same to get their
former colonies. Send priest, merchants, adventurers, then breed
trouble,
and when the local government complains, pretend to be offended and
declare
war.
The U.K. is technically still a monarchy. Monarchies are the antithesis
of democracies. They (the UK) are practically a democracy now, but only
after the first true modern democracy (The United States) paved the way
for parliamentary reform in the British Isles.
Much to my shame (well, more truthfully to my amusement) the 1870 war
between France and Germany was formally initiated by France. Not so
much of
a republic at the time, but then is U.K. a democratic country? If yes,
so
was France at the time.
Neither were practicing democracies at the time. Again the UK is
technically still not a democracy.
Still you could argue that U.S. intervention in Panama was not war,
but then
How many innocent civilians (i.e. excluding the highly paid armed thugs
protecting Noriega) were killed by this action, let’s see could it be…
NONE ?
How many opposition candidates were beaten tortured and killed by
Noriega leading up to the intervention ? (hundreds)
How many psychopathic drug dealers were captured ? (1)
What percentage of Panamanian citizens supported the action ? (92%), not
to mention the fact that the PCZ was U.S. sovereign territory at the
time (via internationally recognized agreement).
what about Saddam Hussein intervention in Kuwait ? If it was not war,
then a
whole bunch of democratic countries initiated war.
Let me see uhhhh, who initiated that war ? (hint: by invading a
neighboring sovereign nation).
Let us be reallistic, initiating a war from a democratic country is
just a
bit more tricky, but we did it manytimes, and shall do it again.
Nope. Initiating wars in a true democracy, is not tricky, it is darned
near impossible.
I should have added that France and the U.K. and later the U.S. of A.
did
declare war on Germany during WWII. My point is that in that case
Hitler
provoqued the reaction even if he did not do the act.
Uhhh, let’s see, who initiated W.W.II ? (hint: by invading SEVERAL
neighboring sovereign nations)
In the case of Japan,
the U.S.A. did provoque Japan by denying fuel supply, and Japan
attacked.
Uhhh, let’s see, who initiated the American involvement in W.W.II ?
(hint: by bombing the military base of another SOVEREIGN NATION)
Why was the U.S. denying fuel to Japan ?(could it be because Japan
had recently INVADED SEVERAL SOVEREIGN NATIONS).
Now it was probably right to hinder Japan, and it was the simpler way
for
Roosevelt to involve the U.S.A. in WWII, whether or not the majority
wanted
that. So much for democracies preventing war.
I fail to see how you have come even remotely close to making any kind
of a point here.
Please note that I carefully tried not to judge whether the war was
right or
not. In the later case it seems to be right (understatement), and we
could
find good or less good reasons for Panama, Mexico, and so on.By the way didn’t you had Civil War and Indian Wars ?
The Civil war is not, and cannot be viewed as one nation initiating war
against another, since it is a war within a nation. Clearly, any nation
that experiences a civil war is not a functioning democracy. The U.S.
was not a fully functioning democracy until about 100 years after the
declaration of independence (which can only be viewed as the intention
to establish and maintain a democracy). If a nation could become
democratic simply by declaring that fact on a piece of paper, there
might be a lot of democracies around. If you are Mexican, then you DO
NOT live in a democratic country (one free election does not a democracy
make). In 20 to 50 years assuming that citizens of Mexico remain
vigilant, you might have a functioning democracy (as an aside, England
took it’s first step toward democracy with the Magna Carta in 1217, and
they didn’t become a fully practicing democracy until the very end of
the 19th century - so if Mexico can do it in 20 - 50 years, rather than
600, they should consider themselves lucky). Democracy is an on-going
process, it is always fragile, and (if you read any of my other posts)
you will know that my main point is that each and every one of us are
responsible for ensuring it’s survival.
Finally, the point I was trying to make by asking how many wars had been
initiated by democracies, was not to somehow show American citizens as
some morally superior class of homosapiens, but (when all of the wars
which I know happened in the last 500 years were brought up) to show
that democracy is a very rare, and valuable commodity, since the answer
to the (admittedly trick) question is that there has been essentially NO
FUNCTIONING DEMOCRACIES IN THE LAST 500 YEARS - as measured by
(democracy-years)/(person-lifespan)). The democracies that exist today
are but a blip in history.
“Rennie Allen” <RAllen@csical.com> a écrit dans le message news:
64F00D816A85D51198390050046F80C9B565@exchangecal.hq.csical.com…
Remember that it often is not amount of men/women, but their
spirit.
Their readiness and willingness to fight to death. France had much
better economy, supplies and technology than Poland, but polish gave
Hitler more resistance. I believe they held Warsaw for a month. In
Russia it took germans 280 days of siege and several unsuccesfull
attacks to capture Sebastopol (in Crimea peninsula) and there was no
‘cold weather’ factor there. They never managed to capture Leningrad
despite 900 days of siege.I know it is popular (especially amongst non-French Europeans >
characterize the French during W.W.II as “wet noodles”, but (IMO) this
is simply not true. It is certainly true that the French military
command was (almost criminally) unprepared to fight W.W.II, but the
soldiers in the French army have been reported to have fought
heroically
in nearly every action for which I have read accounts. In Dunkirk,
for
example, fierce (hand to hand combat in many cases) rear actions by
the
French played a significant role in slowing the advance of the German
divisions (although these soldiers clearly knew their ultimate fate,
and
could have retreated to join the evacuation). Their sacrifice played
a
significant role in the success of the evacuation, without which,
Hitler’s rampage over North Africa and the Mediterranean would have
gone
largely unchallenged, and with this larger geographic base, the war
could easily have gone the other way (and Leningrad eventually taken,
in
however costly a fashion). No, the French military might have made
serious strategic errors, but their willingness to fight should not be
questioned, nor the individual sacrifices of soldiers forgotten or
trivialized. As for the civilian French population, the nature of the
invasion of France was so different than any other situation in
W.W.II,
that there simply was not an opportunity to offer any resistance of
the
type undertaken in Warsaw or Sebastopol. The French population
undertook a successful program of subterfuge as the only reasonable
form
of resistance given the circumstance; while it was not as dramatic as
a
seige, it was ultimately quite effective.Rennie
One must show that there is rule of law, since rule of law is a
pre-requisite for democracy. I agree, that terrorism can never be
defeated by law, it can only defeated by knowledge. Knowledge that
violence begets violence, and the Terrorism is pointless and will never
achieve anything (human beings can be taught this). The psychopaths,
however, can never be taught, the only thing that might happen in the
future is that we (mentally sound human beings) might be able to track
down and cure psychopathic disorder (although I’m not holding my
breath).
btw: I meant the “Good for you” completely genuinely, I meant “Good for
you” in educating your children about the situation, and telling them
the truth.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mario Charest [mailto:mcharest@nowayzinformatic.com]
Posted At: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 10:31 AM
Posted To: advocacy
Conversation: War
Subject: Re: War
“Rennie Allen” <RAllen@csical.com> wrote in message
news:64F00D816A85D51198390050046F80C9BAFF@exchangecal.hq.csical.com…
Good for you, Mario…
Yes I realize that Rennie, I really do (I think)
I guess what I’m trying to say, is how are we going to change things
so that it never happens again: By hunting down the guilty, and
bringing
them to justice. I don’t beleive this will make any difference. I
really thing the US has meet an undefeatable enemy. No one
can cope with such a thread. You can’t hunt them down, they
are probably all over the word. They have use no real weapon
that you can control. For all you know one of them can be
your neightboard.
Somebody can come in the US (or anywhere else) with a bottle of
perfume that could be biochemical poison. How the hell can
you deal with that. Apparently these people are ready to die.
Washington, the center of the “government” has been hit, one
major symbol of US capability has been obliterated. Quite
frankly I don’t see how it was avoidable. The amount of control
required to prevent this is uncalculable.
What they have done is technicaly “easy” to do, they just had
to hyjack a plane, kill the pilot and replace it with a pilot ready
to die. Take a car (or more then one) fill it in with explosive
(that isn’t so hard to obtain), drive it in the towers. Time the whole
think and here you go. It doesn’t take load of money to do
this, probably takes very little people as well. Could have
been mastermind and done with as little as 10-20 people.
How the hell can anyone counter such a thread.
The enemy apparently has no fear, these are not enemey I would
want to deal with.
For all we know this might have been done by US citizen,
how would you fight this? There was the oklahama bombing,
one guys gets cought and send to deathrow, a few years later,
we get what we see now. Well it seems to me whatever
was done to prevent this or dissuade any one who want do
the same, failed miserable. Apparently it ain’t working at
all. Somebody has got to change the recipe, no?
But who knows, maybe I’m dead wrong, maybe this was just a
minority that will vanish into thin air or that will get
caught, put in prison or sent to deathrow and never to be heard
of again. Or maybe not ;-(
Yes it was Mario. I’m glad you backed off.
“Mario Charest” <mcharest@clipzinformatic.com> wrote in message
news:9no0o7$oue$1@inn.qnx.com…
They must have never heard of Hirosima then.
I wish I didn’t say that, I’m sorry. It was innapropriate.
“Kevin Stallard” <kevin@robots.flyingrobots.fly.> wrote in message
news:9nntsh$naa$1@inn.qnx.com…
You DO NOT let cowards get away with garbage like this with out reprisal.
The only problem Isreal has is that they are always “reigned in” by the
U.S.
and others. They should be unleashed. Terrorisom SHOULD NOT and I
repreat
SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED. It should be crushed.
I can think of a thousand negitive adjectives that I would call the people
that did this. Most of them I wouldn’t repeat in polite company.
Let me key in on a word that you’ve used and many others have used in the
last 30 odd hours.
These people have been called cowards. That, I don’t get.
I have a daughter that love with all of my heart. But I’ve posed the
question to myself many times: If I had to actually risk my life to save
her’s, would I? I can’t honestly swear that I would. I hope that if it
ever were necessary, that I would. I hope even more that it will never be
necessary. But I can’t swear that I would absolutely risk loosing my life
for her’s. OK. So I’m quick to say that maybe I’m a coward, but at least
an honest coward.
But here there are people that sacrificed their lives for something that
they believed in. Of course what they believed in is all screwed up. But
how can someone call them cowards?
NOTE: I’m not justifying what happened. Those people are )(^$#, ^&^(()%,
$))&^%$, and ^&%(#()(&%&() ! ! ! I just can’t see calling them cowards.
“Rennie Allen” <RAllen@csical.com> wrote in message
news:64F00D816A85D51198390050046F80C9BAFF@exchangecal.hq.csical.com…
Good for you, Mario…
Yes I realize that Rennie, I really do (I think)
I guess what I’m trying to say, is how are we going to change things
so that it never happens again: By hunting down the guilty, and bringing
them to justice. I don’t beleive this will make any difference. I
really thing the US has meet an undefeatable enemy. No one
can cope with such a thread. You can’t hunt them down, they
are probably all over the word. They have use no real weapon
that you can control. For all you know one of them can be
your neightboard.
Somebody can come in the US (or anywhere else) with a bottle of
perfume that could be biochemical poison. How the hell can
you deal with that. Apparently these people are ready to die.
Washington, the center of the “government” has been hit, one
major symbol of US capability has been obliterated. Quite
frankly I don’t see how it was avoidable. The amount of control
required to prevent this is uncalculable.
What they have done is technicaly “easy” to do, they just had
to hyjack a plane, kill the pilot and replace it with a pilot ready
to die. Take a car (or more then one) fill it in with explosive
(that isn’t so hard to obtain), drive it in the towers. Time the whole
think and here you go. It doesn’t take load of money to do
this, probably takes very little people as well. Could have
been mastermind and done with as little as 10-20 people.
How the hell can anyone counter such a thread.
The enemy apparently has no fear, these are not enemey I would
want to deal with.
For all we know this might have been done by US citizen,
how would you fight this? There was the oklahama bombing,
one guys gets cought and send to deathrow, a few years later,
we get what we see now. Well it seems to me whatever
was done to prevent this or dissuade any one who want do
the same, failed miserable. Apparently it ain’t working at
all. Somebody has got to change the recipe, no?
But who knows, maybe I’m dead wrong, maybe this was just a
minority that will vanish into thin air or that will get
caught, put in prison or sent to deathrow and never to be heard
of again. Or maybe not ;-(
Because it was not conviction of beliefs, it is a profound hate of America
disguised as religous beliefs. If they truly had conviction and believed
they were in the right, then they would believe that God would prosper them
against the United States and would not hide behind the mask of secrecy.
They would say to America “Come and get us if you can for God is with us.”.
But God isn’t with them, and deep down they know it. They know God isn’t
going to preserve them. They may not admit to it, they may say that God
will, but deep down, they know that He won’t and that is why they hide.
They are everything you said, plus they are cowards.
Anyone who attacks someone who is unarmed and is unable to defend him or
herself, is a coward, period (in addition to the other expliatives one could
employ). These aren’t religious convictions. I know about religious
convictions and they motivate to defend the innocent not kill them. The
thuds that attacked columbine high-school were cowards. So are these that
hit the World Trade Center.
They may purport to be have religous convictions, but the only connviction
they have is hate, this is not a noble attribute.
Kevin
“Bill Caroselli (Q-TPS)” <qtps@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:9no5ep$rl6$1@inn.qnx.com…
“Kevin Stallard” mailto: kevin@robots.flyingrobots.fly> > wrote in message
news:9nntsh$naa$> 1@inn.qnx.com> …
You DO NOT let cowards get away with garbage like this with out
reprisal.
The only problem Isreal has is that they are always “reigned in” by the
U.S.
and others. They should be unleashed. Terrorisom SHOULD NOT and I
repreat
SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED. It should be crushed.I can think of a thousand negitive adjectives that I would call the people
that did this. Most of them I wouldn’t repeat in polite company.Let me key in on a word that you’ve used and many others have used in the
last 30 odd hours.These people have been called cowards. That, I don’t get.
I have a daughter that love with all of my heart. But I’ve posed the
question to myself many times: If I had to actually risk my life to save
her’s, would I? I can’t honestly swear that I would. I hope that if it
ever were necessary, that I would. I hope even more that it will never be
necessary. But I can’t swear that I would absolutely risk loosing my life
for her’s. OK. So I’m quick to say that maybe I’m a coward, but at least
an honest coward.But here there are people that sacrificed their lives for something that
they believed in. Of course what they believed in is all screwed up. But
how can someone call them cowards?NOTE: I’m not justifying what happened. Those people are )(^$#,
^&^(()%,
$))&^%$, and ^&%(#()(&%&() ! ! ! I just can’t see calling them
cowards.
One other thing Bill that you have to consider, you are motivated out of
love and desire to protect. These people are motivated by hate and desire
to destroy defensless people.
I can understand the temptation to make a comparason as we relate to things
by what is dear to us, your daughter for example, but these people. It was
not courage that motivated them. It was something entirely different. Keep
in mind that just because two very different attributes (one noble, one
despicable) can lead someone to do the same act (risking one’s life for
example) doesn’t mean they have anything in common.
Bill, you would be surprised what you would do for your daughter, and she
needs to know just how strong you love for her is. It will make her a very
strong individual indeed.
Kevin
“Bill Caroselli (Q-TPS)” <qtps@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:9no5ep$rl6$1@inn.qnx.com…
“Kevin Stallard” mailto: kevin@robots.flyingrobots.fly> > wrote in message
news:9nntsh$naa$> 1@inn.qnx.com> …
You DO NOT let cowards get away with garbage like this with out
reprisal.
The only problem Isreal has is that they are always “reigned in” by the
U.S.
and others. They should be unleashed. Terrorisom SHOULD NOT and I
repreat
SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED. It should be crushed.I can think of a thousand negitive adjectives that I would call the people
that did this. Most of them I wouldn’t repeat in polite company.Let me key in on a word that you’ve used and many others have used in the
last 30 odd hours.These people have been called cowards. That, I don’t get.
I have a daughter that love with all of my heart. But I’ve posed the
question to myself many times: If I had to actually risk my life to save
her’s, would I? I can’t honestly swear that I would. I hope that if it
ever were necessary, that I would. I hope even more that it will never be
necessary. But I can’t swear that I would absolutely risk loosing my life
for her’s. OK. So I’m quick to say that maybe I’m a coward, but at least
an honest coward.But here there are people that sacrificed their lives for something that
they believed in. Of course what they believed in is all screwed up. But
how can someone call them cowards?NOTE: I’m not justifying what happened. Those people are )(^$#,
^&^(()%,
$))&^%$, and ^&%(#()(&%&() ! ! ! I just can’t see calling them
cowards.
You know, as much as i agree with Kevin, i have to concur with you on that
one. But then Dubya (who started the “cowardly acts” phrase) never was
really in command of the english language anyway.
“Bill Caroselli (Q-TPS)” <qtps@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:9no5ep$rl6$1@inn.qnx.com…
“Kevin Stallard” <> kevin@robots.flyingrobots.fly> .> wrote in message
news:9nntsh$naa$> 1@inn.qnx.com> …
You DO NOT let cowards get away with garbage like this with out
reprisal.
The only problem Isreal has is that they are always “reigned in” by the
U.S.
and others. They should be unleashed. Terrorisom SHOULD NOT and I
repreat
SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED. It should be crushed.I can think of a thousand negitive adjectives that I would call the people
that did this. Most of them I wouldn’t repeat in polite company.Let me key in on a word that you’ve used and many others have used in the
last 30 odd hours.These people have been called cowards. That, I don’t get.
I have a daughter that love with all of my heart. But I’ve posed the
question to myself many times: If I had to actually risk my life to save
her’s, would I? I can’t honestly swear that I would. I hope that if it
ever were necessary, that I would. I hope even more that it will never be
necessary. But I can’t swear that I would absolutely risk loosing my life
for her’s. OK. So I’m quick to say that maybe I’m a coward, but at least
an honest coward.But here there are people that sacrificed their lives for something that
they believed in. Of course what they believed in is all screwed up. But
how can someone call them cowards?NOTE: I’m not justifying what happened. Those people are )(^$#,
^&^(()%,
$))&^%$, and ^&%(#()(&%&() ! ! ! I just can’t see calling them
cowards.
It may surprise to to know that cowardly acts phrase didn’t start with him.
It was the first gut reaction of every sinsible and well grounded individual
everywhere. Precisely because that is what it was.
“Maynard Lanting” <mlanting@atsautomation.com> wrote in message
news:3b9fa36e$1@ats2.sentex.ca…
You know, as much as i agree with Kevin, i have to concur with you on that
one. But then Dubya (who started the “cowardly acts” phrase) never was
really in command of the english language anyway.“Bill Caroselli (Q-TPS)” <> qtps@earthlink.net> > wrote in message
news:9no5ep$rl6$> 1@inn.qnx.com> …
“Kevin Stallard” <> kevin@robots.flyingrobots.fly> .> wrote in message
news:9nntsh$naa$> 1@inn.qnx.com> …
You DO NOT let cowards get away with garbage like this with out
reprisal.
The only problem Isreal has is that they are always “reigned in” by
the
U.S.
and others. They should be unleashed. Terrorisom SHOULD NOT and I
repreat
SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED. It should be crushed.I can think of a thousand negitive adjectives that I would call the
people
that did this. Most of them I wouldn’t repeat in polite company.Let me key in on a word that you’ve used and many others have used in
the
last 30 odd hours.These people have been called cowards. That, I don’t get.
I have a daughter that love with all of my heart. But I’ve posed the
question to myself many times: If I had to actually risk my life to save
her’s, would I? I can’t honestly swear that I would. I hope that if it
ever were necessary, that I would. I hope even more that it will never
be
necessary. But I can’t swear that I would absolutely risk loosing my
life
for her’s. OK. So I’m quick to say that maybe I’m a coward, but at
least
an honest coward.But here there are people that sacrificed their lives for something that
they believed in. Of course what they believed in is all screwed up.
But
how can someone call them cowards?NOTE: I’m not justifying what happened. Those people are )(^$#,
^&^(()%,
$))&^%$, and ^&%(#()(&%&() ! ! ! I just can’t see calling them
cowards.
\
Well, she just turned 2 and doesn’t understand most of this kind of thing,
even though she is extreamly intelligent for 2. She does know by what I do
do for her just how much I love her and I expect that to only increase as
her understanding of things does increase.
Bill Caroselli
P.S. Am I allowed to say “do do” in a public forum?
“Kevin Stallard” <kevin@robots.flyingrobots.fly.> wrote in message
news:9no77q$ske$1@inn.qnx.com…
Bill, you would be surprised what you would do for your daughter, and she
needs to know just how strong you love for her is. It will make her a
very
strong individual indeed.
Hmmm, I’m glad your not my dad.
Dad:
“Did you take out the garbage son ?”
Son:
“Nope, I’ve been playing with my hotwheels”
Dad:
“You will feel the might, power and wrath of your parent. I will
crush you so that any of my other offspring will remember what happened
the last time”
I didn’t make this analogy, you did. Bad analogy.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Stallard [mailto:kevin@robots.flyingrobots.fly.]
Posted At: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 8:11 AM
Posted To: advocacy
Conversation: War
Subject: Re: War
Somebody can come in the US (or anywhere else) with a bottle of
perfume that could be biochemical poison. How the hell can
you deal with that. Apparently these people are ready to die.Washington, the center of the “government” has been hit, one
major symbol of US capability has been obliterated. Quite
frankly I don’t see how it was avoidable. The amount of control
required to prevent this is uncalculable.Thats why, when we find who was responsible and who helped them, they
should
feel the might, power and wrath of the United States. We will crush
them so
that anyone, ANYONE who thinks about doing this again will remember what
happened the last time.
You do not negotiate with madmen and sick-os.
You DO NOT let cowards get away with garbage like this with out
reprisal.
The only problem Isreal has is that they are always “reigned in” by the
U.S.
and others. They should be unleashed. Terrorisom SHOULD NOT and I
repreat
SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED. It should be crushed.
Kevin Stallard
It is JUST like disciplining a child. If you let your child get away
with
it, they will do it again and again and again.