Tirade (offtopic) "It's been done"

Previously, Andrzej Kocon wrote in qdn.cafe:

Another coincidence: hadn’t I suppress a remark about
Riemann’s spaces and Einstein’s theory (and his complain), we would
have got two almost identical posts. The reason was that I had heard
about proposals postulating no less than 11 dimensions, so I’m quite
confused.

Well one problem here is that you are confusing mathematics and physics.
A Riemannian space is a mathematical construct. Einstein’s theory is
a physical theory. Of course it is based heavily in mathematics. However
the mathematics is exactly correct. Whether the mathematics or the
theory, coorespond to reality is a matter for experimentation to decided.

General relatively only needs four dimentions. For 11, I think that you
are thinking of string theory.




Mitchell Schoenbrun --------- maschoen@pobox.com

On Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:54:54 -0700, Mitchell Schoenbrun
<maschoen@pobox.com> wrote:

Previously, Andrzej Kocon wrote in qdn.cafe:

Another coincidence: hadn’t I suppress a remark about
Riemann’s spaces and Einstein’s theory (and his complain), we would
have got two almost identical posts. The reason was that I had heard
about proposals postulating no less than 11 dimensions, so I’m quite
confused.

Well one problem here is that you are confusing mathematics and physics.
A Riemannian space is a mathematical construct. Einstein’s theory is
a physical theory. Of course it is based heavily in mathematics. However
the mathematics is exactly correct. Whether the mathematics or the
theory, coorespond to reality is a matter for experimentation to decided.

General relatively only needs four dimentions. For 11, I think that you
are thinking of string theory.

Mitchell Schoenbrun --------- > maschoen@pobox.com

I think I’m still able to distinguish between mathematics, or
applied mathematics, and physics, although they sometimes seem to
converge… I was referring to Kris’s statement: “Riemann’s geometry
is thought to most accurately describe our world”, and yes, 11 comes
from string theory, and from attempts to describe our world even more
accurately, whereas my confusion comes from my lack of knowledge about
the relation between these theories. Does new attempts pretend to be
more general, or do they describe better some thiny aspect? Can one
even compare 4 and 11 in this context?

Judging on your posts from the famous “War” thread (those
pertaining to physics), I stand no chances…

ako

Previously, Andrzej Kocon wrote in qdn.cafe:

I think I’m still able to distinguish between mathematics, or
applied mathematics, and physics, although they sometimes seem to
converge… I was referring to Kris’s statement: “Riemann’s geometry
is thought to most accurately describe our world”,

Ok, so if I may interpret, the geometry of Riemann fits the real world
better than the geometry of Euclid.

and yes, 11 comes
from string theory, and from attempts to describe our world even more
accurately, whereas my confusion comes from my lack of knowledge about
the relation between these theories.

Well as I understand it, string theory is a theory that attempts to
close some known gaps in our understanding of the universe. A big
problem that has existed for some time is how to merge Quantum
mechanics, and General Relativity. Another way to say this is, what
is gravity like at its extremes. The extremes we are talking about
may only exist in black holes, or at the very earliest moments of the
universe. This makes it very hard to test string theory. The 11
dimensions is just something that pops out of the theory. Where
are those dimensions. One explaination goes like this. If you look
at a hair from far away, it appears one-dimensional. However if you
move in very close, you see that it has another dimension creating a
surface. To “see” one of these other 11 dimensions, you would need
to be looking at a scale much smaller than the radius of a nucleus.

String theory is not the only theory that currently being tossed
around. BTW, I’ve never seen any of the actual formulation of
string theory. It’s the type of thing you would probably have to
dig through journals to find, and then it would probably look like
greek.

Does new attempts pretend to be
more general, or do they describe better some thiny aspect?

Yes and yes. String theory would have to encompass all of
Quantum Mechanics and General Relatively, although in the same
way that Quantum Mechanics encompasses Newtonian mechanics.

QM and GR would have to fall out of String Theory when you were
looking at more normal distances, just as Newtonian mechanics
falls out of QM.


Can one
even compare 4 and 11 in this context?

Sure. 4 of the 11 dimensions are the same ones we are familiar with.
The other 7 would be the “wound up” ones.

Judging on your posts from the famous “War” thread (those
pertaining to physics), I stand no chances…

Sorry if I was rude. I don’t indend to be, usually. :slight_smile:.

Mitchell Schoenbrun --------- maschoen@pobox.com

“Mitchell Schoenbrun” <maschoen@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:Voyager.020620183108.15067A@schoenbrun.com

String theory is not the only theory that currently being tossed
around. BTW, I’ve never seen any of the actual formulation of
string theory. It’s the type of thing you would probably have to
dig through journals to find, and then it would probably look like
greek.

If I may make a recommendation (which I believe I mentioned earlier in the
thread as well), “The Elegant Universe” by Brian Greene is a very
approachable (even for laymen) exposure of modern physics with emphasis on
string theory. I’m about half way through and there have only been a few
chapters which made my brain go, “Ouch!” so far.

cheers,

Kris

Thanks for a thorough explanation, I wish I had time to read
more about it (be it at a popular level).

Best regards,

ako