C Editor

Adam Mallory <amallory@qnx.com> wrote:
AM > Bill Caroselli wrote:

Don’t think I haven’t thought of it. But an editor isn’t my kind of
project.

AM > Seems exactly like your kind of project - scratching an itch and all.
AM > When has ‘making money’ not been a type of project for a contractor?

Besides, vedit is already a complete and polished product.
All that is needed is to port either the QNX4 version or the Linux
version to QNX6.

AM > I believe a very very hot place will freeze over long before a port to
AM > QNX6 occurs - time to look elsewhere.

It may be that the Linux version would be easier to port.
I don’t know.

AM > Nothing technical is stopping a port of vedit IIRC - just politics.


(Sigh)
I’m well aware.

Bill Caroselli wrote:

Don’t think I haven’t thought of it. But an editor isn’t my kind of
project.

Seems exactly like your kind of project - scratching an itch and all.
When has ‘making money’ not been a type of project for a contractor?

Besides, vedit is already a complete and polished product.
All that is needed is to port either the QNX4 version or the Linux
version to QNX6.

I believe a very very hot place will freeze over long before a port to
QNX6 occurs - time to look elsewhere.

It may be that the Linux version would be easier to port.
I don’t know.

Nothing technical is stopping a port of vedit IIRC - just politics.


\

Cheers,
Adam

QNX Software Systems Ltd.
[ amallory@qnx.com ]

With a PC, I always felt limited by the software available.
On Unix, I am limited only by my knowledge.
–Peter J. Schoenster <pschon@baste.magibox.net>

Augie <augiehenriques@hotmail.com> wrote:
A > I think my point keeps getting missed… :slight_smile:

A > Say for example… you… sell apples… That is your main focus… If you
A > just sell apples… You are limited (no need for explanation here)… but if
A > you enhance your product with apple peelers, slicers, apple cider, etc,
A > etc… You will sell a lot more apples and a few other things as well… On
A > some of these you might make a little more profit… on others perhaps
A > not… but the point is you sell a lot more apples… your main focus… and
A > your clients are happier… etc… etc.

A > The same thing applies here… keep developers/users happy with what they
A > need… and the more product you will sell… A decent GUI editor with
A > syntax highlighting and other common features should be part of the QNX 6
A > hosted IDE.

A > We have a new project here coming up with potential large number of units
A > and it will be hard to pick QNX 6…

A > Just my opinion… I could be wrong…

A > Augie


I do agree. QNX6 needs a better programmers editor. Workspace came
close. It has a few bugs. Why can’t QSSL fix those few bugs?

Currently I’m using gvim. It lacks a few features that I miss. I believe
those features are available if I just learned the configuration languare.
So far, I haven’t had the time.

Mario Charest <nowheretobefound@8thdimension.com> wrote:

I miss vedit.

MC > Get the Windows version of vedit and access your file through samba.

I actually have an old QNX4 box on my network that I can telnet into to do
exactly that. It worked fairly well too. But the QNX Samba does funny
things with the date/time stamps. My makefiles never work properly.
So I’ve abandonded that idea.

Mario Charest <nowheretobefound@8thdimension.com> wrote:

MC > I don’t use QDE but is the editor that bad?

I used QDE back in QNX2 days. It was OK for it’s time. But editors have
moved on a little. I still use qde occasionally when I need to edit from
a text mode screen. The keystrokes are a little unatual to me. But I
guess I just don’t have enough experience with it.

I also tried jed. It was OK on text screen too. But it would screw up
when you tried to open multiple jed sessions at the same time. (Which I
do quite often.)

I miss vedit.

Get the Windows version of vedit and access your file through samba.

“Augie” <augiehenriques@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cfd83e$k26$1@inn.qnx.com

I think my point keeps getting missed… > :slight_smile:



Say for example… you… sell apples… That is your main focus… If
you
just sell apples… You are limited (no need for explanation here)… but
if
you enhance your product with apple peelers, slicers, apple cider, etc,
etc… You will sell a lot more apples and a few other things as well…
On
some of these you might make a little more profit… on others perhaps
not… but the point is you sell a lot more apples… your main focus…
and
your clients are happier… etc… etc.

They need to work polishing/completing IDE before they start working on a
stand alone editor.


The same thing applies here… keep developers/users happy with what they
need… and the more product you will sell… A decent GUI editor with
syntax highlighting and other common features should be part of the QNX 6
hosted IDE.

It is getting there I beleive.


We have a new project here coming up with potential large number of units
and it will be hard to pick QNX 6…

If they only reason you are not choosing QNX6 is because of the editor I
think you got your priority wrong. There are decent editor for QNX6. Some
will even say there are very good editor : vim (gvim) being one of them.

I don’t use QDE but is the editor that bad?

Augie wrote:

Say for example… you… sell apples… That is your main focus… If you
just sell apples… You are limited (no need for explanation here)… but if
you enhance your product with apple peelers, slicers, apple cider, etc,
etc… You will sell a lot more apples and a few other things as well…

I don’t think this is true - adding value to your overall product does
NOT guarantee an increase in units purchased. You must ensure that
these value adds are in fact what people want (this ‘want’ is what
drives the increase, not the fact of including it).

You’re not going to sell more apples by including a peeler+slicer etc if
everyone already has one or no one wants one (they’re happy with their
knife) or no one cares (ie. you packaged something neat, which no one
actually uses).

On
some of these you might make a little more profit… on others perhaps
not… but the point is you sell a lot more apples… your main focus… and
your clients are happier… etc… etc.

This also is too simplistic a view - if you sell more apples, you need
to ramp up other business aspects to keep up with the demand. Soon, the
cost of selling of the product (ie apples) outstrips all profits and
it’s better to sell nothing at all.

The same thing applies here… keep developers/users happy with what they
need… and the more product you will sell… A decent GUI editor with
syntax highlighting and other common features should be part of the QNX 6
hosted IDE.

I don’t agree - it’s very common (maybe not for you) that developers do
not get final say in what gets purchased. Keeping them happy is nice,
but does not translate to revenue. The flip side also occurs, where the
developers love the neat stuff, but they don’t make the buying decision
and some inferior product gets selected for business reasons (cheap etc).

We have a new project here coming up with potential large number of units
and it will be hard to pick QNX 6…

We’re hosted on Solaris, Windows and Linux as well as Neutrino. Are you
saying that not one of these platforms has an editor you can use/like?
If so, I would say you’re in the minority, and the minority is not
usually profitable from a business perspective.

As Mario mentioned, is an editor really a make/break item for getting
your project up, stable and out the door on time?? – something is wrong
if it is IMHO.


Cheers,
Adam

QNX Software Systems Ltd.
[ amallory@qnx.com ]

With a PC, I always felt limited by the software available.
On Unix, I am limited only by my knowledge.
–Peter J. Schoenster <pschon@baste.magibox.net>

Augie wrote:

The same thing applies here… keep developers/users happy with what they
need… and the more product you will sell… A decent GUI editor with
syntax highlighting and other common features should be part of the QNX 6
hosted IDE.

YMMV but the IDE does have a GUI editor with syntax highlighting and
other common features. If it’s not “decent”, I’m sure people would like
to hear why you don’t like it.

Or run one of the many X11 text editors that does syntax highlighting…


Chris Herborth (cherborth@qnx.com)
Never send a monster to do the work of an evil scientist.

Bill Caroselli wrote:

Mario Charest <> nowheretobefound@8thdimension.com> > wrote:

MC > I don’t use QDE but is the editor that bad?

I used QDE back in QNX2 days. It was OK for it’s time. But editors have
moved on a little. I still use qde occasionally when I need to edit from
a text mode screen. The keystrokes are a little unatual to me. But I
guess I just don’t have enough experience with it.

I think you might be confusing qed the text-mode editor with QDE the
Momentics IDE. :wink:


Chris Herborth (cherborth@qnx.com)
Never send a monster to do the work of an evil scientist.

Augie <augiehenriques@hotmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for making it clear for me… > :slight_smile: > Discrimination against
“minority”… > :slight_smile:
Enough said… my voice doesn’t count… > :slight_smile:

What editor do you want?

-seanb

“Adam Mallory” <amallory@qnx.com> wrote in message
news:cfde2r$ofr$1@inn.qnx.com

Augie wrote:

Say for example… you… sell apples… That is your main focus… If
you
just sell apples… You are limited (no need for explanation here)…
but if
you enhance your product with apple peelers, slicers, apple cider, etc,
etc… You will sell a lot more apples and a few other things as well…

I don’t think this is true - adding value to your overall product does
NOT guarantee an increase in units purchased. You must ensure that
these value adds are in fact what people want (this ‘want’ is what
drives the increase, not the fact of including it).

You’re not going to sell more apples by including a peeler+slicer etc if
everyone already has one or no one wants one (they’re happy with their
knife) or no one cares (ie. you packaged something neat, which no one
actually uses).

On
some of these you might make a little more profit… on others perhaps
not… but the point is you sell a lot more apples… your main focus…
and
your clients are happier… etc… etc.

This also is too simplistic a view - if you sell more apples, you need
to ramp up other business aspects to keep up with the demand. Soon, the
cost of selling of the product (ie apples) outstrips all profits and
it’s better to sell nothing at all.

The same thing applies here… keep developers/users happy with what
they
need… and the more product you will sell… A decent GUI editor with
syntax highlighting and other common features should be part of the QNX
6
hosted IDE.

I don’t agree - it’s very common (maybe not for you) that developers do
not get final say in what gets purchased. Keeping them happy is nice,
but does not translate to revenue. The flip side also occurs, where the
developers love the neat stuff, but they don’t make the buying decision
and some inferior product gets selected for business reasons (cheap etc).

We have a new project here coming up with potential large number of
units
and it will be hard to pick QNX 6…

We’re hosted on Solaris, Windows and Linux as well as Neutrino. Are you
saying that not one of these platforms has an editor you can use/like?
If so, I would say you’re in the minority, and the minority is not
usually profitable from a business perspective.

Thanks for making it clear for me… :slight_smile: Discrimination against
“minority”… :slight_smile:
Enough said… my voice doesn’t count… :slight_smile:

Augie

As Mario mentioned, is an editor really a make/break item for getting
your project up, stable and out the door on time?? – something is wrong
if it is IMHO.


Cheers,
Adam

QNX Software Systems Ltd.
[ > amallory@qnx.com > ]

With a PC, I always felt limited by the software available.
On Unix, I am limited only by my knowledge.
–Peter J. Schoenster <> pschon@baste.magibox.net

Chris Herborth <cherborth@qnx.com> wrote:
CH > Bill Caroselli wrote:

Mario Charest <> nowheretobefound@8thdimension.com> > wrote:

MC > I don’t use QDE but is the editor that bad?

I used QDE back in QNX2 days. It was OK for it’s time. But editors have
moved on a little. I still use qde occasionally when I need to edit from
a text mode screen. The keystrokes are a little unatual to me. But I
guess I just don’t have enough experience with it.

CH > I think you might be confusing qed the text-mode editor with QDE the
CH > Momentics IDE. :wink:

Oops, Yup!

I didn’t know the Momentics editor had a name.

Augie wrote:

Thanks for making it clear for me… > :slight_smile: > Discrimination against
“minority”… > :slight_smile:
Enough said… my voice doesn’t count… > :slight_smile:

Not quite - Your voice matters to us. I’m just trying to illustrate
that business decisions don’t get made in a vacuum, but they don’t
always involve criteria developers find important.

It’s not discrimination, it’s just not where the money is.

\

Cheers,
Adam

QNX Software Systems Ltd.
[ amallory@qnx.com ]

With a PC, I always felt limited by the software available.
On Unix, I am limited only by my knowledge.
–Peter J. Schoenster <pschon@baste.magibox.net>

“Bill Caroselli” <qtps@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:cfdbac$lvr$3@inn.qnx.com

Mario Charest <> nowheretobefound@8thdimension.com> > wrote:
I miss vedit.

MC > Get the Windows version of vedit and access your file through samba.

I actually have an old QNX4 box on my network that I can telnet into to do
exactly that. It worked fairly well too. But the QNX Samba does funny
things with the date/time stamps. My makefiles never work properly.
So I’ve abandonded that idea.

Try NFS (although QNX implementation of NFS isn`t rock solid)

Are you talking about the QNX6 version of Samba? Maybe its the client side in QNX4 (SMBfsys) thats got a problem.

Bill Caroselli wrote:

Chris Herborth <> cherborth@qnx.com> > wrote:
CH > I think you might be confusing qed the text-mode editor with QDE the
CH > Momentics IDE. > :wink:

Oops, Yup!

I didn’t know the Momentics editor had a name.

The editor itself doesn’t have a name. At some point in the recent past
the Eclipse toolset/IDE shipped with QNX started getting called QDE.
Short for, I assume, QNX Development Environment.

As opposed to Momentics which covers the whole “Host” installation.


Evan

Evan Hillas wrote:

As opposed to Momentics which covers the whole “Host” installation.

I suspect there is no difference between QDE and Momentics on a non-QNX
host.

Hi Bill…

Why don’t you like the editor that comes with Momentics?

Regards…

Miguel.



Bill Caroselli wrote:

I do agree. QNX6 needs a better programmers editor. Workspace came
close. It has a few bugs. Why can’t QSSL fix those few bugs?

Currently I’m using gvim. It lacks a few features that I miss. I believe
those features are available if I just learned the configuration languare.
So far, I haven’t had the time.

Hi Augie…

I would not take it that way.

Mario said that a good editor ‘matches your brain structure’. Well…
what is the ‘brain structure’ of your organization? Linux? Run Momentics
in Linux, use your favorite editor, and off you go.

The editor that comes with the Momentics development environment is
pretty complete and universal (you can use the same editor in QNX,
Linux, Apple, Windows). What is wrong with this?

Regards…

Miguel.



Augie wrote:

Thanks for making it clear for me… > :slight_smile: > Discrimination against
“minority”… > :slight_smile:
Enough said… my voice doesn’t count… > :slight_smile:

Augie

Miguel Simon <simon@ou.edu> wrote:
MS > Hi Bill…

MS > Why don’t you like the editor that comes with Momentics?

MS > Regards…

MS > Miguel.

It’s been a year since I tried it. I thought the editor was somewhat
short on features, though I don’t remember what was missing. But it was
the whole IDE that I didn’t like. I don’t need to beat that dead horse
again. I realize that many people seem to love it.