Can QRTP target a small 386?

Matthew_T_Linehan · October 3, 2000, 6:09am

What I’m looking to do is to develop a real time application on my
700MHz Athalon, targeted to a small 386 board. The application is REAL
TIME, (must have sub 500uS response time to external events) and needs
TCP/IP support. The user will interface with the board via a www
browser.

Target System:
i386EX @ 25MHz
8MB Ram
16MB Disk on Chip (M-systems flash disk)
No Keyboard / Mouse
No Video Hardware, not even basic VGA
2 serial ports
1 parallel port
TTYS1 will be the system console
Ethernet Chip integrated to the board at 0x301 (I know, it’s odd)
Customers will only access the board via TCP/IP. The serial ports are
reserved for my use.
($260 US in quanities of one board)

We purchase the board from t-systems.com. They come with ETLinux, but
I don’t like ETLinux, and I’m looking for an alternative OS to use.
Reworking ETLinux to support real time has been a real pain!

So, will QRTP do it? Linux distros don’t like targeting 386 hardware,
letalone the odd hardware setup on this board.

If I ship 50 units per year, what’s it going to cost me for the
development license (1 programmer), and 50 shipped units per year.

Can’t QNX put the licensing costs on there www site?

BTW: I just finised downloading the QRTP ISO, I’ll be giving it a try
at work in just a few hours. Time to sleep…

Thanks in advance

Pat_Ford · October 3, 2000, 1:23pm

I’m not sure about the timming but QRTP should be happy on a
386ex. We have a explorer(intel ref board) board in our regression test lab

Previously, Matthew T. Linehan wrote in comp.os.qnx:
{ What I’m looking to do is to develop a real time application on my
{ 700MHz Athalon, targeted to a small 386 board. The application is REAL
{ TIME, (must have sub 500uS response time to external events) and needs
{ TCP/IP support. The user will interface with the board via a www
{ browser.
{
{ Target System:
{ i386EX @ 25MHz

tested during weekly regression tests

{ 8MB Ram
{ 16MB Disk on Chip (M-systems flash disk)

should be no problem

{ No Keyboard / Mouse
{ No Video Hardware, not even basic VGA
{ 2 serial ports
{ 1 parallel port
{ TTYS1 will be the system console

no problem there

{ Ethernet Chip integrated to the board at 0x301 (I know, it’s odd)
{ Customers will only access the board via TCP/IP. The serial ports are
{ reserved for my use.
{ ($260 US in quanities of one board)
{
{ We purchase the board from t-systems.com. They come with ETLinux, but
{ I don’t like ETLinux, and I’m looking for an alternative OS to use.
{ Reworking ETLinux to support real time has been a real pain!
{
{ So, will QRTP do it? Linux distros don’t like targeting 386 hardware,
{ letalone the odd hardware setup on this board.
{
{ If I ship 50 units per year, what’s it going to cost me for the
{ development license (1 programmer), and 50 shipped units per year.
{
{ Can’t QNX put the licensing costs on there www site?
{
{ BTW: I just finised downloading the QRTP ISO, I’ll be giving it a try
{ at work in just a few hours. Time to sleep…
{
{ Thanks in advance
{ –
{ ±-----------------------±--------------------±-------------------+
{ | Matthew T. Linehan | AKA -=(UDIC)=- | All Round Computer |
{ | American LED-gible Inc | Quantum Void Dragon | Nerd. Hardware, |
{ | Engineer | Ultima Fanatic | Software, Other |
{ ±-----------------------±--------------------±-------------------+
{

–
Pat Ford email: pford@qnx.com
QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com
(613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terence Matthews
(613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8

Mario_Charest1 · October 3, 2000, 1:43pm

“Pat Ford” <pford@qnx.com> wrote in message
news:Voyager.001003092324.1988A@funnel.qnx.com…

I’m not sure about the timming but QRTP should be happy on a
386ex. We have a explorer(intel ref board) board in our regression test
lab

Previously, Matthew T. Linehan wrote in comp.os.qnx:
{ What I’m looking to do is to develop a real time application on my
{ 700MHz Athalon, targeted to a small 386 board. The application is REAL
{ TIME, (must have sub 500uS response time to external events) and needs
{ TCP/IP support. The user will interface with the board via a www
{ browser.

If the external events is interrupt based 500us is not problem. However
if you need to poll every 500us, that a lot for a 386. Can be done but
you’ll affect the performance of the machine quite a bit.

{
{ Target System:
{ i386EX @ 25MHz

tested during weekly regression tests

{ 8MB Ram
{ 16MB Disk on Chip (M-systems flash disk)

should be no problem

{ No Keyboard / Mouse
{ No Video Hardware, not even basic VGA
{ 2 serial ports
{ 1 parallel port
{ TTYS1 will be the system console

no problem there

{ Ethernet Chip integrated to the board at 0x301 (I know, it’s odd)
{ Customers will only access the board via TCP/IP. The serial ports are
{ reserved for my use.
{ ($260 US in quanities of one board)
{
{ We purchase the board from t-systems.com. They come with ETLinux, but
{ I don’t like ETLinux, and I’m looking for an alternative OS to use.
{ Reworking ETLinux to support real time has been a real pain!
{
{ So, will QRTP do it? Linux distros don’t like targeting 386 hardware,
{ letalone the odd hardware setup on this board.
{
{ If I ship 50 units per year, what’s it going to cost me for the
{ development license (1 programmer), and 50 shipped units per year.
{
{ Can’t QNX put the licensing costs on there www site?
{
{ BTW: I just finised downloading the QRTP ISO, I’ll be giving it a try
{ at work in just a few hours. Time to sleep…
{
{ Thanks in advance
{ –
{ ±-----------------------±--------------------±-------------------+
{ | Matthew T. Linehan | AKA -=(UDIC)=- | All Round Computer |
{ | American LED-gible Inc | Quantum Void Dragon | Nerd. Hardware, |
{ | Engineer | Ultima Fanatic | Software, Other > > |
{ ±-----------------------±--------------------±-------------------+
{

–
Pat Ford email: > pford@qnx.com
QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: > http://www.qnx.com
(613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terence Matthews
(613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8

Lee_R_Copp · October 3, 2000, 4:02pm

What I’m looking to do is to develop a real time application on my
700MHz Athalon, targeted to a small 386 board. The application is REAL
TIME, (must have sub 500uS response time to external events) and needs
TCP/IP support. The user will interface with the board via a www
browser.

I just did almost the same thing. I used a P-II 450 running QNX 4.25 to
develop
for a PC-104 based 386 @33Mhz. I setup FTP/Telenet on the 386 and used
them to transfer/test my stuff. I found that the 386 was too slow to handle
A/D
at 500Hz, crunch the data, store the data on a D.O.C, multi-task with all
the
processess needed to support this (like TCP/IP, NetEther, inetd, tinit,
telenetd,
Pcmcia, etc…) and get back to the A/D before the next sample…I ended up
with
a 486@66 and it handles it ok.

So, will QRTP do it? Linux distros don’t like targeting 386 hardware,
letalone the odd hardware setup on this board.

I haven’t tried this yet but it is on the ‘todo’ list. It was a hassle
putting together a
boot image on a HD and getting it onto the D.O.C. (I’ve been waiting on
their
gang-programmer for about a year…its total vapor-ware as far as I know)

BTW: I just finised downloading the QRTP ISO, I’ll be giving it a try
at work in just a few hours. Time to sleep…

Have fun…

Later…

~ Lee R. Copp
~ Project Engineer (EE/ME)
~ Michigan Scientific Corp.
~ 321 East Huron St.
~ Milford, MI 48381
~ 248-685-3939 x109 (V), 248-684-5406 (Fx)
~ http://www.michiganscientific.com
~ mailto:<Lee.R.Copp@MichiganScientific.com>

Matthew_T_Linehan · October 4, 2000, 12:13am

Thanks!!!
I’m very impressed with QNX, and the support is obviously excellent.
However I got to work today, and the entire scope of the project
changed. Don’t ya just love executives…

Suddently my request to target a pentium class board instead of a
i386EX board was approved. So now I’m looking for hardware again.

Sugestions on PC/104 Pentium Class Single Board Computers anyone?

I’m personally would like to use QNX on this project. The support
being the main deciding factor. But the Boss will not hear of it. And
the reason why is quite interesting.

The Boss is not apposed to a ~$50 licensing fee per shipped unit. But
he is TOTALLY apposed (Total Brick Wall) to licensing keys. And I
quote → “Sure $50 licensing per unit is a drop in the bucket, but
It’s going to cost me $500 in overhead to track and administrate the
licensing keys!”

He does have a point that the administration of the licensing keys
would be non-trivial. Our customers have a habbit of moving processor
boards between units without telling us.

What say you QNX???
Have a come back for said boss???
Also could someone atlease give me a hint what the licensing costs
are. Are we talking $5, $50, or $500 per unit shipped???

On Tue, 3 Oct 2000 09:23:24 -0400, Pat Ford <pford@qnx.com> wrote:

I’m not sure about the timming but QRTP should be happy on a
386ex. We have a explorer(intel ref board) board in our regression test lab

Mario_Charest1 · October 4, 2000, 12:24pm

“Matthew T. Linehan” <mlinehan@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:hqskts4iqd5jg68ku89pdbh8lagib8u55e@4ax.com…

Thanks!!!
I’m very impressed with QNX, and the support is obviously excellent.
However I got to work today, and the entire scope of the project
changed. Don’t ya just love executives…

Suddently my request to target a pentium class board instead of a
i386EX board was approved. So now I’m looking for hardware again.

Sugestions on PC/104 Pentium Class Single Board Computers anyone?

I’m personally would like to use QNX on this project. The support
being the main deciding factor. But the Boss will not hear of it. And
the reason why is quite interesting.

The Boss is not apposed to a ~$50 licensing fee per shipped unit. But
he is TOTALLY apposed (Total Brick Wall) to licensing keys. And I
quote → “Sure $50 licensing per unit is a drop in the bucket, but
It’s going to cost me $500 in overhead to track and administrate the
licensing keys!”

As far as I know QRTP does not required a licensing keys, (It does
for QNX4 however). If you contact QSSL directly ( don’t expect
QSSL to answer here, this is a technical forum), you might be able
to work out a deal with them. At one place I work, they bought
100 licenses but we were free to use the same license number. All
they had to do is use small stickers provided by QSSL and each
sticker has a unique “serial number” and must be stick somewhere
on the unit.

He does have a point that the administration of the licensing keys
would be non-trivial. Our customers have a habbit of moving processor
boards between units without telling us.

What say you QNX???
Have a come back for said boss???
Also could someone atlease give me a hint what the licensing costs
are. Are we talking $5, $50, or $500 per unit shipped???

On Tue, 3 Oct 2000 09:23:24 -0400, Pat Ford <> pford@qnx.com> > wrote:

I’m not sure about the timming but QRTP should be happy on a
386ex. We have a explorer(intel ref board) board in our regression test
lab

–
±-----------------------±--------------------±-------------------+
| Matthew T. Linehan | AKA -=(UDIC)=- | All Round Computer |
| American LED-gible Inc | Quantum Void Dragon | Nerd. Hardware, |
| Engineer | Ultima Fanatic | Software, Other > > |
±-----------------------±--------------------±-------------------+

Pat_Ford · October 4, 2000, 2:31pm

look at http://staff.qnx.com/~pford/yumalist.html
I did a fair bit of this kinda thing in when I was in the embedded group.
(note this file is about qnx4.2X)

Previously, Lee R. Copp wrote in comp.os.qnx:
{ > What I’m looking to do is to develop a real time application on my
{ > 700MHz Athalon, targeted to a small 386 board. The application is REAL
{ > TIME, (must have sub 500uS response time to external events) and needs
{ > TCP/IP support. The user will interface with the board via a www
{ > browser.
{
{ I just did almost the same thing. I used a P-II 450 running QNX 4.25 to
{ develop
{ for a PC-104 based 386 @33Mhz. I setup FTP/Telenet on the 386 and used
{ them to transfer/test my stuff. I found that the 386 was too slow to handle
{ A/D
{ at 500Hz, crunch the data, store the data on a D.O.C, multi-task with all
{ the
{ processess needed to support this (like TCP/IP, NetEther, inetd, tinit,
{ telenetd,
{ Pcmcia, etc…) and get back to the A/D before the next sample…I ended up
{ with
{ a 486@66 and it handles it ok.
{
{ > So, will QRTP do it? Linux distros don’t like targeting 386 hardware,
{ > letalone the odd hardware setup on this board.
{
{ I haven’t tried this yet but it is on the ‘todo’ list. It was a hassle
{ putting together a
{ boot image on a HD and getting it onto the D.O.C. (I’ve been waiting on
{ their
{ gang-programmer for about a year…its total vapor-ware as far as I know)

nope we had an early version

{
{ > BTW: I just finised downloading the QRTP ISO, I’ll be giving it a try
{ > at work in just a few hours. Time to sleep…
{
{ Have fun…
{
{ Later…
{ ~~~~~
{ ~ Lee R. Copp
{ ~ Project Engineer (EE/ME)
{ ~ Michigan Scientific Corp.
{ ~ 321 East Huron St.
{ ~ Milford, MI 48381
{ ~ 248-685-3939 x109 (V), 248-684-5406 (Fx)
{ ~ http://www.michiganscientific.com
{ ~ mailto:Lee.R.Copp@MichiganScientific.com
{ ~~~~~
{
{
{
{
{

–
Pat Ford email: pford@qnx.com
QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com
(613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terence Matthews
(613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8

Robert_L_Harris · October 4, 2000, 2:50pm

Check out Arcom Control Systems Ltd. They have a number of PC-104 SBCs
that run QNX. One of my clients is using a 386 from them.

“Matthew T. Linehan” wrote:

Thanks!!!
I’m very impressed with QNX, and the support is obviously excellent.
However I got to work today, and the entire scope of the project
changed. Don’t ya just love executives…

Suddently my request to target a pentium class board instead of a
i386EX board was approved. So now I’m looking for hardware again.

Sugestions on PC/104 Pentium Class Single Board Computers anyone?

I’m personally would like to use QNX on this project. The support
being the main deciding factor. But the Boss will not hear of it. And
the reason why is quite interesting.

The Boss is not apposed to a ~$50 licensing fee per shipped unit. But
he is TOTALLY apposed (Total Brick Wall) to licensing keys. And I
quote → “Sure $50 licensing per unit is a drop in the bucket, but
It’s going to cost me $500 in overhead to track and administrate the
licensing keys!”

He does have a point that the administration of the licensing keys
would be non-trivial. Our customers have a habbit of moving processor
boards between units without telling us.

What say you QNX???
Have a come back for said boss???
Also could someone atlease give me a hint what the licensing costs
are. Are we talking $5, $50, or $500 per unit shipped???

On Tue, 3 Oct 2000 09:23:24 -0400, Pat Ford <> pford@qnx.com> > wrote:

I’m not sure about the timming but QRTP should be happy on a
386ex. We have a explorer(intel ref board) board in our regression test lab

–
±-----------------------±--------------------±-------------------+
| Matthew T. Linehan | AKA -=(UDIC)=- | All Round Computer |
| American LED-gible Inc | Quantum Void Dragon | Nerd. Hardware, |
| Engineer | Ultima Fanatic | Software, Other > > |
±-----------------------±--------------------±-------------------+

Can QRTP target a small 386?

Thanks in advance

–

Bob Harris In short, you may buy a servant or slave, Bath, NH but you cannot buy a friend. bob@microprograms.com (Thoreau: Wild Fruits)

Bob Harris In short, you may buy a servant or slave,
Bath, NH but you cannot buy a friend.
bob@microprograms.com (Thoreau: Wild Fruits)