After downloading my QNXRTP.ISO and dreading setting up
another PC (I have 3 systems running QNX 4.25, Win98, and Linux all
taking up Case/Monitor space in my office) I came up with the following
hardware boot manager. I used it to turn my Linux system into a dual
boot for QNXRTP/Linux. So, here is my little project to create a
hardware boot manager. If you don’t mind soldering and hardware stuff
(and possibly frying something if you screw up)…give this a try:
Get 3 ide hard drives
Set 2 on the primary IDE as Master or Single depending on the manufacturer
of the HD (This is the tricky part…keep reading)
Set 1 on the secondary IDE
Set BIOS to AutoDetect hard drives
Buy a rotary, 2 position, double pole switch
Buy a few internal HD power cables and Y splitter types
Buy some rolls of wire the same guage as the power cables
Solder the switch so it supplies the +5V and +12V suppilies to one of the
2 power connectors at a time. Route the ground straight through to both
plugs
Use the 2 plugs out of the switch to plug into the two HDs on the primary
and power the secondary HD normally.
Mount the switch someplace convenient.
Your Done!!!
Now, with a simple turn of a nob you can boot off a TOTALLY isolated OS (no
more Winsucks
detecting you dual booting and trashing your files). With this arrangement
you can setup QNXRTP
on one of the Primary HDs as the boot and mount the Secondary as a Fat16.
This Fat16 could
be mounted and serve as the backup for the files on the boot HD or any file
which you might want
to transfer between OSs. Right now I am manually unplugging and plugging the
power connector
to whichever HD I want to boot from until my ordered parts come in…
One minute I’m in Linux…power down…switch…power up…QNX
RTP…Bingo…No muss…no fuss…
Neither OS knows about the other. I save on having multiple PCs taking up
space and IDE HDs are
real cheap and easy to use. With the right IDE cables you could even have
more then 2 HDs plugged
into the same controller. Imagine a tower case with 8 HDs and a 8-position
switch. Linux, Unix, QNX4.25,
QNXRTP, BeOS, Win9x, etc…all clueless to the others existance…There are
numerous other
possibilities but you get the idea. I’ve even had some of the guys at work
asking me to build them one
when I get mine done…maybe a new career move???..another dot.com is
born…
Good Luck…
~ Lee R. Copp
~ Project Engineer (EE/ME)
~ Michigan Scientific Corp.
~ 321 East Huron St.
~ Milford, MI 48381
~ 248-685-3939 x109 (V), 248-684-5406 (Fx)
~ http://www.michiganscientific.com
~ mailto:<Lee.R.Copp@MichiganScientific.com>
that would likely blow something, the chips on the harddrive are cmos,
and the I/O pins have little diodes to vcc of the chips, if the don’t
apply power but have I/O activity, the little diodes will try to source
current to the missing vcc. The $1M question is which will blow first
the controller on the HD or the ide controller?
If you look at the ide spec there is another option take a look at
pins 37 and 38 ( CS0_L and CS1_L ) a beeter alternative should be apparent
before you ask, yes the spce was for 4 ide on a channel and I forget what
stoped that from happening ( bios??)
Or the SIMPLE way is removible hd trays (yes I do it both ways) and use the
secondary drive as a transfer area
Previously, Lee R. Copp wrote in comp.os.qnx:
{ After downloading my QNXRTP.ISO and dreading setting up
{ another PC (I have 3 systems running QNX 4.25, Win98, and Linux all
{ taking up Case/Monitor space in my office) I came up with the following
{ hardware boot manager. I used it to turn my Linux system into a dual
{ boot for QNXRTP/Linux. So, here is my little project to create a
{ hardware boot manager. If you don’t mind soldering and hardware stuff
{ (and possibly frying something if you screw up)…give this a try:
{
{ Get 3 ide hard drives
{ Set 2 on the primary IDE as Master or Single depending on the manufacturer
{ of the HD (This is the tricky part…keep reading)
{ Set 1 on the secondary IDE
{ Set BIOS to AutoDetect hard drives
{ Buy a rotary, 2 position, double pole switch
{ Buy a few internal HD power cables and Y splitter types
{ Buy some rolls of wire the same guage as the power cables
{ Solder the switch so it supplies the +5V and +12V suppilies to one of the
{ 2 power connectors at a time. Route the ground straight through to both
{ plugs
{ Use the 2 plugs out of the switch to plug into the two HDs on the primary
{ and power the secondary HD normally.
{ Mount the switch someplace convenient.
{
{ Your Done!!!
{
{ Now, with a simple turn of a nob you can boot off a TOTALLY isolated OS (no
{ more Winsucks
{ detecting you dual booting and trashing your files). With this arrangement
{ you can setup QNXRTP
{ on one of the Primary HDs as the boot and mount the Secondary as a Fat16.
{ This Fat16 could
{ be mounted and serve as the backup for the files on the boot HD or any file
{ which you might want
{ to transfer between OSs. Right now I am manually unplugging and plugging the
{ power connector
{ to whichever HD I want to boot from until my ordered parts come in…
{
{ One minute I’m in Linux…power down…switch…power up…QNX
{ RTP…Bingo…No muss…no fuss…
{ Neither OS knows about the other. I save on having multiple PCs taking up
{ space and IDE HDs are
{ real cheap and easy to use. With the right IDE cables you could even have
{ more then 2 HDs plugged
{ into the same controller. Imagine a tower case with 8 HDs and a 8-position
{ switch. Linux, Unix, QNX4.25,
{ QNXRTP, BeOS, Win9x, etc…all clueless to the others existance…There are
{ numerous other
{ possibilities but you get the idea. I’ve even had some of the guys at work
{ asking me to build them one
{ when I get mine done…maybe a new career move???..another dot.com is
{ born…
{
{ Good Luck…
{ ~~~~~
{ ~ Lee R. Copp
{ ~ Project Engineer (EE/ME)
{ ~ Michigan Scientific Corp.
{ ~ 321 East Huron St.
{ ~ Milford, MI 48381
{ ~ 248-685-3939 x109 (V), 248-684-5406 (Fx)
{ ~ http://www.michiganscientific.com
{ ~ mailto:Lee.R.Copp@MichiganScientific.com
{ ~~~~~
{
{
{
{
{
{
{
{
–
Pat Ford email: pford@qnx.com
QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com
(613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terence Matthews
(613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8
Or the SIMPLE way is removible hd trays (yes I do it both ways) and use
the
secondary drive as a transfer area
That I have done before, and it worked fine for me, I stored all my
important stuff on the second drive, and used two separate drives for the
primary drive.
This way I could swap OS, and still have all my doc’s where I wanted them
that would likely blow something, the chips on the harddrive are cmos,
Hmph…been running over 3 weeks and no smoke…
and the I/O pins have little diodes to vcc of the chips, if the don’t
apply power but have I/O activity, the little diodes will try to source
No tri-states eh? I’m not totally familar with IDE drives but I would
expect a high-impedence input with lack of power…isn’t that a static
protection type of thing??? I tried several different drives (WD, Seagate,
IBM, Samsung) and except for figuring out the master/slave jumper things
worked fine.
current to the missing vcc. The $1M question is which will blow first
the controller on the HD or the ide controller?
I’ll let you know if it ever happens…I’ve left my system running QNXRTP
for
the last couple weeks (just to do a little OS burn-in) and no problems.
When
I get my real switch built I’ll be able to swap more easily then the literal
‘plug
& play’…
If you look at the ide spec there is another option take a look at
pins 37 and 38 ( CS0_L and CS1_L ) a beeter alternative should be apparent
I’ll take a peek. Thanks. I was thinking about an electronic switcher
using some
control pins but then the power thing occured to me and it has worked very
well
so far. Plus, you don’t power any more drives then you really need…
Or the SIMPLE way is removible hd trays (yes I do it both ways) and use
the
secondary drive as a transfer area
I don’t know…flip a switch or swap a tray and then carefully put the
unused tray
somewhere and hope it doesn’t get lost or dropped. My way keeps both HDs
mounted and solid and you don’t have to pay for extra caddies or the slot.
Thanks…
~ Lee R. Copp
~ Project Engineer (EE/ME)
~ Michigan Scientific Corp.
~ 321 East Huron St.
~ Milford, MI 48381
~ 248-685-3939 x109 (V), 248-684-5406 (Fx)
~ http://www.michiganscientific.com
~ mailto:<Lee.R.Copp@MichiganScientific.com>
If you connect unpowered electronic circuits to a powered bus, you are asking for trouble IMHO. Even if there is no evidence of immediate damage, it is likely that holes will be punched in the substrate of your ICs causing premature aging. The normal capacitance in CMOS circuit elements protects them to a certain extent from sudden power surges; your circuits will not be so protected. I wouldn’t even switch control lines with a simple switch because of the ringing on the signal line and the residual capacitance, you could well have a situation where two output drivers were virtually short circuited. Quite apart from the power problems, I would also be very concerened about the noise you may introduce into your system. If you are willing to do some soldering, why not construct a simple selector circuit and use your switch as an input for that?
Previously, Lee R. Copp wrote in comp.os.qnx:
that would likely blow something, the chips on the harddrive are cmos,
Hmph…been running over 3 weeks and no smoke…
and the I/O pins have little diodes to vcc of the chips, if the don’t
apply power but have I/O activity, the little diodes will try to source
No tri-states eh? I’m not totally familar with IDE drives but I would
expect a high-impedence input with lack of power…isn’t that a static
protection type of thing??? I tried several different drives (WD, Seagate,
IBM, Samsung) and except for figuring out the master/slave jumper things
worked fine.
current to the missing vcc. The $1M question is which will blow first
the controller on the HD or the ide controller?
I’ll let you know if it ever happens…I’ve left my system running QNXRTP
for
the last couple weeks (just to do a little OS burn-in) and no problems.
When
I get my real switch built I’ll be able to swap more easily then the literal
‘plug
& play’…>
If you look at the ide spec there is another option take a look at
pins 37 and 38 ( CS0_L and CS1_L ) a beeter alternative should be apparent
I’ll take a peek. Thanks. I was thinking about an electronic switcher
using some
control pins but then the power thing occured to me and it has worked very
well
so far. Plus, you don’t power any more drives then you really need…
Or the SIMPLE way is removible hd trays (yes I do it both ways) and use
the
secondary drive as a transfer area
I don’t know…flip a switch or swap a tray and then carefully put the
unused tray
somewhere and hope it doesn’t get lost or dropped. My way keeps both HDs
mounted and solid and you don’t have to pay for extra caddies or the slot.
Thanks…
~ Lee R. Copp
~ Project Engineer (EE/ME)
~ Michigan Scientific Corp.
~ 321 East Huron St.
~ Milford, MI 48381
~ 248-685-3939 x109 (V), 248-684-5406 (Fx)
~ > http://www.michiganscientific.com
~ mailto:> <Lee.R.Copp@MichiganScientific.com>
\
Regards,
Dave.
David P. Whelan, Technical Writer
QNX Software Systems Ltd. Email: <dwhelan@qnx.com>
Kanata, Ontario K2M 1W8 (613) 591-0931 ext.180
If you connect unpowered electronic circuits to a powered bus, you are
asking for trouble IMHO. Even if there is no evidence of >immediate damage,
it is likely that holes will be punched in the substrate of your ICs causing
premature aging. The normal
Holes in the substrate??? Premature aging??? Whoa…way over my head
now…
capacitance in CMOS circuit elements protects them to a certain extent from
sudden power surges; your circuits will not be so
Not even if the drives are grounded???
protected. I wouldn’t even switch control lines with a simple switch
because of the ringing on the signal line and the residual
My thoughts as well…The switch doesn’t occur under power but you would
still have that surface contact…
problems, I would also be very concerened about the noise you may
introduce into your system. If you are willing to do some >soldering, why
not construct a simple selector circuit and use your switch as an input for
that?
That is another option but requires more detailed soldering, wiring, and
components. Hacking a 40 pin IDE cable would not
be fun… Maybe a PCB with a couple connectors and some circuitry on it
to ‘split’ the cable into doing what I want with
those select lines…I’m still doing some prototyping and circuit layout for
this little side project but the outcome could be very
handy.
Thanks…
~ Lee R. Copp
~ Project Engineer (EE/ME)
~ Michigan Scientific Corp.
~ 321 East Huron St.
~ Milford, MI 48381
~ 248-685-3939 x109 (V), 248-684-5406 (Fx)
~ http://www.michiganscientific.com
~ mailto:<Lee.R.Copp@MichiganScientific.com>
Previously, Lee R. Copp wrote in comp.os.qnx:
{
{ That is another option but requires more detailed soldering, wiring, and
{ components. Hacking a 40 pin IDE cable would not
{ be fun…
it isn’t that bad! the 2 lines you are interested in are on the far side of
the red stripe. Grab the last 4 wires and pull them away from the rest, then
pull the outside 2 from the inside two. A quick snip, and splice and you are set.
(btdt) Don’t try this on a udma eide cable they have 80 wires and they are very fine,
and tuned for the high speed.
{ Maybe a PCB with a couple connectors and some circuitry on it
{ to ‘split’ the cable into doing what I want with
{ those select lines…
Another way to do it would be to have a short ide cable to a board, and buy the headers
and do wire wrap to other sets of headers and have the 2 lines feed out where ever. That
way you can add drives to your hearts content.
{I’m still doing some prototyping and circuit layout for
{ this little side project but the outcome could be very
{ handy.
I’ll try to get some pictures of what I did and post them
{
{ Thanks…
{ ~~~~~
{ ~ Lee R. Copp
{ ~ Project Engineer (EE/ME)
{ ~ Michigan Scientific Corp.
{ ~ 321 East Huron St.
{ ~ Milford, MI 48381
{ ~ 248-685-3939 x109 (V), 248-684-5406 (Fx)
{ ~ http://www.michiganscientific.com
{ ~ mailto:Lee.R.Copp@MichiganScientific.com
{ ~~~~~
{
{
{
{
–
Pat Ford email: pford@qnx.com
QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com
(613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terence Matthews
(613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8
Someone pointed out this company a few weeks back
http://www.arcoide.com/dbintro.htm
DualBoot product claims to allow you to select IDE drive “at a flip of a
switch”. Nowhere near as fun as building yourself but seems to fit what you
are trying to do.
“Lee R. Copp” <Lee.R.Copp@MichiganScientific.com> wrote in message
news:8sgb3m$924$1@inn.qnx.com…
If you connect unpowered electronic circuits to a powered bus, you are
asking for trouble IMHO. Even if there is no evidence of >immediate
damage,
it is likely that holes will be punched in the substrate of your ICs
causing
premature aging. The normal
Holes in the substrate??? Premature aging??? Whoa…way over my head
now…>
capacitance in CMOS circuit elements protects them to a certain extent
from
sudden power surges; your circuits will not be so
Not even if the drives are grounded???
protected. I wouldn’t even switch control lines with a simple switch
because of the ringing on the signal line and the residual
My thoughts as well…The switch doesn’t occur under power but you would
still have that surface contact…
problems, I would also be very concerened about the noise you may
introduce into your system. If you are willing to do some >soldering, why
not construct a simple selector circuit and use your switch as an input
for
that?
That is another option but requires more detailed soldering, wiring, and
components. Hacking a 40 pin IDE cable would not
be fun…> > Maybe a PCB with a couple connectors and some circuitry on it
to ‘split’ the cable into doing what I want with
those select lines…I’m still doing some prototyping and circuit layout
for
this little side project but the outcome could be very
handy.
Thanks…
~ Lee R. Copp
~ Project Engineer (EE/ME)
~ Michigan Scientific Corp.
~ 321 East Huron St.
~ Milford, MI 48381
~ 248-685-3939 x109 (V), 248-684-5406 (Fx)
~ > http://www.michiganscientific.com
~ mailto:> <Lee.R.Copp@MichiganScientific.com>
it isn’t that bad! the 2 lines you are interested in are on the far side
of
the red stripe. Grab the last 4 wires and pull them away from the rest,
then
pull the outside 2 from the inside two. A quick snip, and splice and you
are set.
(btdt) Don’t try this on a udma eide cable they have 80 wires and they are
very fine,
and tuned for the high speed.
Yah…That solution is starting to grow on me…I just need to surf a little
and grab
some IDE schematics…
Another way to do it would be to have a short ide cable to a board, and
buy the headers
and do wire wrap to other sets of headers and have the 2 lines feed out
where ever. That
way you can add drives to your hearts content.
That is the plan for a prototype…then a quick PCB layout and presto…
I’ll try to get some pictures of what I did and post them
Cool. Thanks. I’m suprised somebody hasn’t come out with something
‘professional’ already…
A custom PCB with a few headers and some glue logic wouldn’t cost that much
and with the
recent surge in # of cool OSs and drop in IDE prices it seems natural…
Later…
~ Lee R. Copp
~ Project Engineer (EE/ME)
~ Michigan Scientific Corp.
~ 321 East Huron St.
~ Milford, MI 48381
~ 248-685-3939 x109 (V), 248-684-5406 (Fx)
~ http://www.michiganscientific.com
~ mailto:<Lee.R.Copp@MichiganScientific.com>