message unavailable
Previously, Debbie Kane wrote in qdn.public.news, qdn.public.qnx4:
By the end of this week, you will have the option to update using the CD
archives format, or by the old_style patch format.
Note to current users:
The existing method of obtaining updates and patches will continue to work
at least until the beginning of January 2001. If you automate the download
of updates and patches this will give you a six month period to adapt your
scripts to the new update mechanism.
Will the cd install program be installed in the next patch, or do we
have to copy it to our hard drives manually? I couldn’t find anything
promising in /bin, /usr/bin, and searching for install in the on-line
docs was not fruitful.
Does the cd install program have the ability to be run without photon, from
the command line?
→ If not, when 6 months are over I will no longer be able to update any
→ systems I maintain over a dial-up link. How will this be addressed?
Sam
–
Sam Roberts (sam@cogent.ca), Cogent Real-Time Systems (www.cogent.ca)
“Sam Roberts” <sam@cogent.ca> wrote in message
news:Voyager.000727141120.30416C@sam.cogent.ca…
Previously, Debbie Kane wrote in qdn.public.news, qdn.public.qnx4:
By the end of this week, you will have the option to update using the
CD
archives format, or by the old_style patch format.snip
Note to current users:
The existing method of obtaining updates and patches will continue to
work
at least until the beginning of January 2001. If you automate the
download
of updates and patches this will give you a six month period to adapt
your
scripts to the new update mechanism.
Will the cd install program be installed in the next patch, or do we
have to copy it to our hard drives manually? I couldn’t find anything
promising in /bin, /usr/bin, and searching for install in the on-line
docs was not fruitful.
You require a CD to get the CD installer. You can contact customer service
to purchase one.
Does the cd install program have the ability to be run without photon,
from
the command line?→ If not, when 6 months are over I will no longer be able to update any
→ systems I maintain over a dial-up link. How will this be addressed?
The CD installer program requires Photon.
I’m not sure what you mean by not being able to download via dial-up link.
FTP and TCP can be used over dialup.
Sam
–
Sam Roberts (> sam@cogent.ca> ), Cogent Real-Time Systems (> www.cogent.ca> )
Previously, Debbie Kane wrote in qdn.public.qnx4:
Will the cd install program be installed in the next patch, or do we
have to copy it to our hard drives manually? I couldn’t find anything
promising in /bin, /usr/bin, and searching for install in the on-line
docs was not fruitful.You require a CD to get the CD installer. You can contact customer service
to purchase one.
I have several, thanks, but I don’t have one in my CD tray all the time.
So, I suggest that the cd install program be installed with the
rest of the o/s, so we don’t have to all copy it off the cd ourselves,
or go hunting through filing cabinets every time we download an update
from the QDN.
Does the cd install program have the ability to be run without photon,
from the command line?→ If not, when 6 months are over I will no longer be able to update any
→ systems I maintain over a dial-up link. How will this be addressed?The CD installer program requires Photon.
I’m not sure what you mean by not being able to download via dial-up link.
FTP and TCP can be used over dialup.
No, not download, install. If I telnet into a system, how the am
I supposed to use this cd install program? For one, it isn’t
installed with the O/S, so I’ll have to copy it off the CD myself. And for
two, it only runs with photon. Am I supposed to fly down to New York
and upgrade their systems in person?
If I understand you correctly, it will soon be impossible to dial-in to a
system over a modem and install QNX software. Am I supposed to fly down to
New York and upgrade their systems in person?
That cd install program is absolutely useless for embedded systems, you
need a version that can be run from the command line.
Sam
–
Sam Roberts (sam@cogent.ca), Cogent Real-Time Systems (www.cogent.ca)
Maybe it would help if Debbie elaborated on the last paragraph (note) of her
original post. The way I read it, the access method (ie dial up to quics) was
going away in 6 months, not the quics style patches, which should still be
available via ftp or http from the new support.qnx.com site.
Is this correct?
Will QSSL be delivering QUICS style file patches for use with the /etc/install
program, as well as cd archive style file patches for use with /cd/bin/phinstall,
indefinitely, and will all releases be in both formats? If so, problem solved.
If not, Sam, you have a point!
Scott
Sam Roberts wrote:
Previously, Debbie Kane wrote in qdn.public.qnx4:
1)Will the cd install program be installed in the next patch, or do we
have to copy it to our hard drives manually? I couldn’t find anything
promising in /bin, /usr/bin, and searching for install in the on-line
docs was not fruitful.You require a CD to get the CD installer. You can contact customer service
to purchase one.I have several, thanks, but I don’t have one in my CD tray all the time.
So, I suggest that the cd install program be installed with the
rest of the o/s, so we don’t have to all copy it off the cd ourselves,
or go hunting through filing cabinets every time we download an update
from the QDN.
Does the cd install program have the ability to be run without photon,
from the command line?→ If not, when 6 months are over I will no longer be able to update any
→ systems I maintain over a dial-up link. How will this be addressed?The CD installer program requires Photon.
I’m not sure what you mean by not being able to download via dial-up link.
FTP and TCP can be used over dialup.No, not download, install. If I telnet into a system, how the am
I supposed to use this cd install program? For one, it isn’t
installed with the O/S, so I’ll have to copy it off the CD myself. And for
two, it only runs with photon. Am I supposed to fly down to New York
and upgrade their systems in person?If I understand you correctly, it will soon be impossible to dial-in to a
system over a modem and install QNX software. Am I supposed to fly down to
New York and upgrade their systems in person?That cd install program is absolutely useless for embedded systems, you
need a version that can be run from the command line.Sam
–
Sam Roberts (> sam@cogent.ca> ), Cogent Real-Time Systems (> www.cogent.ca> )
The download area for CD-style updates at
http://support.qnx.com/download/updates/qnx4_OS/index.html
implies that the install program (/cd/bin/phinstall) can be run from a text
console.
However as someone who is responsible for maintaining a 106 license QNX
network with ZERO Photon licenses, I have a few questions. Please forgive me
if some of them are stupid, since I have never even seen a QNX update CD.
Assuming that the QUICS style “qnx42xx.tar.F” archives are not available
next year, then:
- Does phinstall require Photon to be installed or a Photon license to
function? - What’s the problem with making phinstall available on QUICS?
- From the description on the web, phinstall is not a totally command line
utility, but rather a text-based “wizard”. Anything that requires me to sit
at a console and babysit the upgrade for each node is a BIG PAIN when
upgrading 106 nodes. - Is it possible to make a set of installable floppies using the CD
archive? - What is the advantage of the CD updates versus old-style tarballs?
These are all the question I can think of off the top of my head. Anyone
have the answers?
Thanks,
Stephen
Sam Roberts <sam@cogent.ca> wrote in message
news:Voyager.000727174408.28853B@sam.cogent.ca…
Previously, Debbie Kane wrote in qdn.public.qnx4:
1)Will the cd install program be installed in the next patch, or do we
have to copy it to our hard drives manually? I couldn’t find anything
promising in /bin, /usr/bin, and searching for install in the on-line
docs was not fruitful.You require a CD to get the CD installer. You can contact customer
service
to purchase one.I have several, thanks, but I don’t have one in my CD tray all the time.
So, I suggest that the cd install program be installed with the
rest of the o/s, so we don’t have to all copy it off the cd ourselves,
or go hunting through filing cabinets every time we download an update
from the QDN.
Does the cd install program have the ability to be run without photon,
from the command line?→ If not, when 6 months are over I will no longer be able to update
any
→ systems I maintain over a dial-up link. How will this be addressed?The CD installer program requires Photon.
I’m not sure what you mean by not being able to download via dial-up
link.
FTP and TCP can be used over dialup.No, not download, install. If I telnet into a system, how the am
I supposed to use this cd install program? For one, it isn’t
installed with the O/S, so I’ll have to copy it off the CD myself. And for
two, it only runs with photon. Am I supposed to fly down to New York
and upgrade their systems in person?If I understand you correctly, it will soon be impossible to dial-in to a
system over a modem and install QNX software. Am I supposed to fly down
to
New York and upgrade their systems in person?That cd install program is absolutely useless for embedded systems, you
need a version that can be run from the command line.Sam
–
Sam Roberts (> sam@cogent.ca> ), Cogent Real-Time Systems (> www.cogent.ca> )
I am afraid you mis-read their web page. You can run “phinstall”
(short for photon-based install) from console. It means “phinstall”
is smart enough to detect whether you have Photon running or not.
If you don’t have Photon running (you run phinstall from text console),
it will start Photon for you and then run the GUI installer.
We complained this a year ago on quics (there was a big thread)
but apparently no one listens.
Frank
Stephen Thomas wrote:
The download area for CD-style updates at
http://support.qnx.com/download/updates/qnx4_OS/index.html
implies that the install program (/cd/bin/phinstall) can be run from a text
console.However as someone who is responsible for maintaining a 106 license QNX
network with ZERO Photon licenses, I have a few questions. Please forgive me
if some of them are stupid, since I have never even seen a QNX update CD.
Assuming that the QUICS style “qnx42xx.tar.F” archives are not available
next year, then:
- Does phinstall require Photon to be installed or a Photon license to
function?- What’s the problem with making phinstall available on QUICS?
- From the description on the web, phinstall is not a totally command line
utility, but rather a text-based “wizard”. Anything that requires me to sit
at a console and babysit the upgrade for each node is a BIG PAIN when
upgrading 106 nodes.- Is it possible to make a set of installable floppies using the CD
archive?- What is the advantage of the CD updates versus old-style tarballs?
These are all the question I can think of off the top of my head. Anyone
have the answers?Thanks,
StephenSam Roberts <> sam@cogent.ca> > wrote in message
news:> Voyager.000727174408.28853B@sam.cogent.ca> …
Previously, Debbie Kane wrote in qdn.public.qnx4:
1)Will the cd install program be installed in the next patch, or do we
have to copy it to our hard drives manually? I couldn’t find anything
promising in /bin, /usr/bin, and searching for install in the on-line
docs was not fruitful.You require a CD to get the CD installer. You can contact customer
service
to purchase one.I have several, thanks, but I don’t have one in my CD tray all the time.
So, I suggest that the cd install program be installed with the
rest of the o/s, so we don’t have to all copy it off the cd ourselves,
or go hunting through filing cabinets every time we download an update
from the QDN.
Does the cd install program have the ability to be run without photon,
from the command line?→ If not, when 6 months are over I will no longer be able to update
any
→ systems I maintain over a dial-up link. How will this be addressed?The CD installer program requires Photon.
I’m not sure what you mean by not being able to download via dial-up
link.
FTP and TCP can be used over dialup.No, not download, install. If I telnet into a system, how the am
I supposed to use this cd install program? For one, it isn’t
installed with the O/S, so I’ll have to copy it off the CD myself. And for
two, it only runs with photon. Am I supposed to fly down to New York
and upgrade their systems in person?If I understand you correctly, it will soon be impossible to dial-in to a
system over a modem and install QNX software. Am I supposed to fly down
to
New York and upgrade their systems in person?That cd install program is absolutely useless for embedded systems, you
need a version that can be run from the command line.Sam
–
Sam Roberts (> sam@cogent.ca> ), Cogent Real-Time Systems (> www.cogent.ca> )
“Sam Roberts” <sam@cogent.ca> wrote in message >
I have several, thanks, but I don’t have one in my CD tray all the time.
So, I suggest that the cd install program be installed with the
rest of the o/s, so we don’t have to all copy it off the cd ourselves,
or go hunting through filing cabinets every time we download an update
from the QDN.
As far as I know, the CD installer is only available on CD.
Does the cd install program have the ability to be run without photon,
from the command line?→ If not, when 6 months are over I will no longer be able to update
any
→ systems I maintain over a dial-up link. How will this be addressed?The CD installer program requires Photon.
I’m not sure what you mean by not being able to download via dial-up
link.
FTP and TCP can be used over dialup.No, not download, install. If I telnet into a system, how the am
I supposed to use this cd install program? For one, it isn’t
installed with the O/S, so I’ll have to copy it off the CD myself. And for
two, it only runs with photon. Am I supposed to fly down to New York
and upgrade their systems in person?
It is important to understand that all downloads (QUICS/CD Archives) are for
development systems only, not runtime systems (as per the End User License
Agreement ( http://www.qnx.com/licensing/sdkeula/index.html )
These downloads are not preventing you from creating your own archives that
are installable via /etc/install.
If I understand you correctly, it will soon be impossible to dial-in to a
system over a modem and install QNX software. Am I supposed to fly down
to
New York and upgrade their systems in person?That cd install program is absolutely useless for embedded systems, you
need a version that can be run from the command line.
Sam–
Sam Roberts (> sam@cogent.ca> ), Cogent Real-Time Systems (> www.cogent.ca> )
Debbie Kane <debbie@qnx.com> wrote in message
news:8lsanv$e52$1@nntp.qnx.com…
It is important to understand that all downloads (QUICS/CD Archives) are
for
development systems only, not runtime systems (as per the End User License
Agreement ( > http://www.qnx.com/licensing/sdkeula/index.html > )These downloads are not preventing you from creating your own archives
that
are installable via /etc/install.
We spent a significant amount of money a while back to make all of our
in-house runtime systems “upgradeable”. I agree with Sam, and I strongly
disagree with this approach which makes life hard for embedded systems users
and non-Photon users. Why is it so hard to maintain the old system?? It is
certainly easier for QSSL to do it than for each user to do it individually.
Regards,
Stephen
We complained this a year ago on quics (there was a big thread)
but apparently no one listens.
Frank
I remember. Yes, no one seems to listen. I wonder sometimes if QNX4 isn’t
headed quickly down the same development/support path as QNX2 and Qwindows.
Stephen Thomas <slthomas@corpDOTolin.com> wrote in message
news:8lt4rg$6km$1@inn.qnx.com…
We spent a significant amount of money a while back to make all of our
in-house runtime systems “upgradeable”. I agree with Sam, and I strongly
disagree with this approach which makes life hard for embedded systems
users
and non-Photon users. Why is it so hard to maintain the old system?? It is
certainly easier for QSSL to do it than for each user to do it
individually.This is a BIG pet peeve of mine too.
Re-worded, “It is certainly easier for QSSL to CHANGE NOTHING than for QSSL
AND EACH USER to have to change many things to get it to work again.”
Previously, Bill at Sierra Design wrote in qdn.public.qnx4:
This is a BIG pet peeve of mine too.
The logic that QSSL is using makes sense IF (and only IF) every QNX
system deployed is either an embedded system or a development system.
The reality it sht this is an invalid assumption. It’s probably going
to be quite true for Neutrino & QRtP, but it certainly is NOT true for
QNX4.
I agree that there should be a plain-text / ncurses version of the
install program that can be used. Ideally, it should also have the
ability to be run from node X in a network and install to the local
filesystem on node Y via FLEET.
Cheers,
Camz.
–
Martin Zimmerman camz@passageway.com
Camz Software Enterprises www.passageway.com/camz/qnx/
QNX Programming & Consulting
In article <8lt4rg$6km$1@inn.qnx.com>,
Stephen Thomas <slthomas@corpDOTolin.com> wrote:
Debbie Kane <> debbie@qnx.com> > wrote in message
news:8lsanv$e52$> 1@nntp.qnx.com> …
snip
It is important to understand that all downloads (QUICS/CD Archives) are
for
development systems only, not runtime systems (as per the End User License
Agreement ( > http://www.qnx.com/licensing/sdkeula/index.html > )These downloads are not preventing you from creating your own archives
that
are installable via /etc/install.
We spent a significant amount of money a while back to make all of our
in-house runtime systems “upgradeable”. I agree with Sam, and I strongly
disagree with this approach which makes life hard for embedded systems users
and non-Photon users. Why is it so hard to maintain the old system?? It is
certainly easier for QSSL to do it than for each user to do it individually.
In Debbie’s message she mentioned that the old-style updates will be
available at_least until Jan 2001. i.e. we had not conclusively
decided to shut down the old-style updates for everyone on that date.
I’ve conferred with both Debbie and our product release group and we
have agreed that we will continue to create the old-style updates
for QNX 4 products when new versions are released, and will continue to
make them available to those existing customers who have a legitimate
need for them.
- Eric
–
Eric Johnson
QA Mgr, QNX Software Systems Ltd.
Thank you! 
Eric Johnson <eric@qnx.com> wrote in message
news:8m45sm$8t$1@nntp.qnx.com…
In Debbie’s message she mentioned that the old-style updates will be
available at_least until Jan 2001. i.e. we had not conclusively
decided to shut down the old-style updates for everyone on that date.I’ve conferred with both Debbie and our product release group and we
have agreed that we will continue to create the old-style updates
for QNX 4 products when new versions are released, and will continue to
make them available to those existing customers who have a legitimate
need for them.
- Eric
–
Eric Johnson
QA Mgr, QNX Software Systems Ltd.
My thanks as well!
“Stephen Thomas” <slthomas@corpDOTolin.com> wrote in message
news:8m4vqs$75q$1@inn.qnx.com…
Thank you! >
Eric Johnson <> eric@qnx.com> > wrote in message
news:8m45sm$8t$> 1@nntp.qnx.com> …
In Debbie’s message she mentioned that the old-style updates will be
available at_least until Jan 2001. i.e. we had not conclusively
decided to shut down the old-style updates for everyone on that date.I’ve conferred with both Debbie and our product release group and we
have agreed that we will continue to create the old-style updates
for QNX 4 products when new versions are released, and will continue to
make them available to those existing customers who have a legitimate
need for them.
- Eric
–
Eric Johnson
QA Mgr, QNX Software Systems Ltd.
…and mine.
Mario Charest wrote:
My thanks as well!
“Stephen Thomas” <> slthomas@corpDOTolin.com> > wrote in message
news:8m4vqs$75q$> 1@inn.qnx.com> …
Thank you! >Eric Johnson <> eric@qnx.com> > wrote in message
news:8m45sm$8t$> 1@nntp.qnx.com> …
In Debbie’s message she mentioned that the old-style updates will be
available at_least until Jan 2001. i.e. we had not conclusively
decided to shut down the old-style updates for everyone on that date.I’ve conferred with both Debbie and our product release group and we
have agreed that we will continue to create the old-style updates
for QNX 4 products when new versions are released, and will continue to
make them available to those existing customers who have a legitimate
need for them.
- Eric
–
Eric Johnson
QA Mgr, QNX Software Systems Ltd.
In qdn.public.qnx4 pete@qnx.com wrote:
In qdn.public.qnx4 Paul Russell <> paul@jenosys.com> > wrote:
Now if you ask us if we like an “Ickman Systems Celebron 4000”, we’re
just going to look at you slack jawed. We’ve never heard of it.
Or, even worse, if we happen to have one, and it works fine – that
doesn’t mean that the one they built the next day won’t have different
hardware in it and not work.
-David
pete@qnx.com wrote:
In qdn.public.qnx4 Paul Russell <> paul@jenosys.com> > wrote:
Sometimes I wonder is MS isn’t driving the manufacturers to newer items
that aren’t backwards compatible just to keep the other Op/sys companies off
balance. Many designers would happily make their devices backwards
compatible, at least for the minimum feature setYou know… if you could corner the market on mice, and then make sure
they only work with your GUI, you’d have a pretty good lead in the GUI
area…QSSL doesn’t go far enough in recomending a PC platform for use with
QNX. They will tell me, off the record, that they don’t like certain
manufacturer’s PC’s, but they won’t tell me who they do like.PC’s ought to just be PC’s. Assuming they aren’t stuffed with
proprietary configuration mechanisms, we pretty much like them
all the same.The ones we don’t like do weird things in undocumented and weird
ways, but we can’t just post a list of them in public or we’ll never
be able to convince them to tell us how to make them work.And as far as telling you what we do like, we do. There is a list
of supported graphics cards, network chipsets, hard drive controllers
etc. that we do like, and we post it.
Why don’t you guys start selling your own hardware systems, that work great with
QNX? You could be like Apple, making a superb joining of OS and hardware. Sell
everything from PC104 boards to full blown desktops, and then there would be a
choice to go to for complete compatability. A web store with a build to order
system would be a great choice. You could still continue with the way things are,
supporting as many of the varied PC choices out there as you can, as well. But it
would be great to have a choice that eliminates the guess work from buying
computer hardware for QNX.
Now if you ask us if we like an “Ickman Systems Celebron 4000”, we’re
just going to look at you slack jawed. We’ve never heard of it.
Why don’t you guys start selling your own hardware systems, that work great with
QNX? You could be like Apple, making a superb joining of OS and hardware. Sell
everything from PC104 boards to full blown desktops, and then there would be a
choice to go to for complete compatability. A web store with a build to order
system would be a great choice. You could still continue with the way things are,
supporting as many of the varied PC choices out there as you can, as well. But it
would be great to have a choice that eliminates the guess work from buying
computer hardware for QNX.
Do it! I wouldn’t buy from anyone else. I don’t get paid much to search for
compatible adapters and the long term support is no fun.
There are already many hardware vendors that are prepared to commit to QNX
support. For a start, take a look at
http://www.qnx.com/partners/vendors/embedded.html.
In my experience (for example), ICS Advent are happy to supply rackmount PC
systems that are guaranteed to work with QNX. Of course, these systems are
at least 2-3 times more expensive than your average desktop PC.
IMHO you can’t have it both ways: either you are prepared to pay a premium
to a manufacturer that is prepared to put in the effort to support an
“obscure” OS like QNX, or you take a chance with a $5 NE2000 clone from
Fry’s.
You get what you pay for.
Rob Rutherford
“Ken Recchia” <rectech@nctimes.net> wrote in message
news:39899261.28E7F6FB@nctimes.net…
Why don’t you guys start selling your own hardware systems, that work
great with
QNX? You could be like Apple, making a superb joining of OS and
hardware. Sell
everything from PC104 boards to full blown desktops, and then there
would be a
choice to go to for complete compatability. A web store with a build to
order
system would be a great choice. You could still continue with the way
things are,
supporting as many of the varied PC choices out there as you can, as
well. But it
would be great to have a choice that eliminates the guess work from
buying
computer hardware for QNX.Do it! I wouldn’t buy from anyone else. I don’t get paid much to search
for
compatible adapters and the long term support is no fun.