NTFS?

What’s wrong with using NTFS? During the install, it said something
like, since I wasn’t using Windows 98, I had two problems to contend
with, one it said something about not liking NTFS, and two it said it
need to create a boot floppy. Did it create a boot floppy to contend
with an NTFS install? Or is NTFS just not supported. It also said
something about dma/no dma, and that I would have a choice if I chose
not to build a floppy during the install. I chose to build the floppy
during the install, but there was no choice for dma/no dma there. Would
the choose be there from the standalone utility?

The install progressed without any problem. When I tried to boot, I
passed all the dots, got all the way to the detect eide message, then it
said “/.diskroot file for root not found on any filesystem”. It went on
to say:

starting with safe mode
[4102] fs-pkg …
warning [/pkgs/base/safe-config/etc/system/packages/packages] doesn’t
seem to exist
can’t access package config file
unable to access packages

and then it just sits there. I assume it’s related to the complaint
about NTFS in the install, but I have no way of knowing, so I ask the
question here.

Scott

NTFS is not supported, so you can’t install RTP into NTFS partition.
Well, you CAN, but it will be useless as it won’t boot.

“J. Scott Franko” wrote:

What’s wrong with using NTFS? During the install, it said something
like, since I wasn’t using Windows 98, I had two problems to contend
with, one it said something about not liking NTFS, and two it said it
need to create a boot floppy. Did it create a boot floppy to contend
with an NTFS install? Or is NTFS just not supported. It also said
something about dma/no dma, and that I would have a choice if I chose
not to build a floppy during the install. I chose to build the floppy
during the install, but there was no choice for dma/no dma there. Would
the choose be there from the standalone utility?

The install progressed without any problem. When I tried to boot, I
passed all the dots, got all the way to the detect eide message, then it
said “/.diskroot file for root not found on any filesystem”. It went on
to say:

starting with safe mode
[4102] fs-pkg …
warning [/pkgs/base/safe-config/etc/system/packages/packages] doesn’t
seem to exist
can’t access package config file
unable to access packages

and then it just sits there. I assume it’s related to the complaint
about NTFS in the install, but I have no way of knowing, so I ask the
question here.

Scott

Silly me. I answered my own question by reading the readme file. NTFS is
not supported. Now the question is why? If you are seeking to grow your
developer base as one of the goals of this release, wouldn’t it be a good
assumption that a lot of potential developers work in companies where WinNT
and NTFS prevail? Win98 is the consumer OS, so why support that first?

If I install a second hard drive, formatted Fat32, in my NT4.0 box, would I
be able to install and run from that?

Scott

“J. Scott Franko” wrote:

What’s wrong with using NTFS? During the install, it said something
like, since I wasn’t using Windows 98, I had two problems to contend
with, one it said something about not liking NTFS, and two it said it
need to create a boot floppy. Did it create a boot floppy to contend
with an NTFS install? Or is NTFS just not supported. It also said
something about dma/no dma, and that I would have a choice if I chose
not to build a floppy during the install. I chose to build the floppy
during the install, but there was no choice for dma/no dma there. Would
the choose be there from the standalone utility?

The install progressed without any problem. When I tried to boot, I
passed all the dots, got all the way to the detect eide message, then it
said “/.diskroot file for root not found on any filesystem”. It went on
to say:

starting with safe mode
[4102] fs-pkg …
warning [/pkgs/base/safe-config/etc/system/packages/packages] doesn’t
seem to exist
can’t access package config file
unable to access packages

and then it just sits there. I assume it’s related to the complaint
about NTFS in the install, but I have no way of knowing, so I ask the
question here.

Scott

“J. Scott Franko” wrote:

Silly me. I answered my own question by reading the readme file. NTFS is
not supported. Now the question is why? If you are seeking to grow your
developer base as one of the goals of this release, wouldn’t it be a good
assumption that a lot of potential developers work in companies where WinNT
and NTFS prevail? Win98 is the consumer OS, so why support that first?

Because M$ does not release specs for NTFS. Linux driver is based on
reverse-engineered specs AFAIK. QNX can’t do that because they might be
sued.

If I install a second hard drive, formatted Fat32, in my NT4.0 box, would I
be able to install and run from that?

Yes. You can also ‘squeeze’ your NTFS partition by Partition Magic and
create FAT32 in freed space. Either way, it will work.

Dual booting will be your own responsibility though, because RTP install
does not support NT loader. It is reasonably easy to do, I suggest you
to search Deja-News archives for “dual boot QNX and NT”, description was
posted in comp.os.qnx quite a few times I believe.

It should go into FAQ anyway.

  • igor

“J. Scott Franko” <jsfranko@switch.com> wrote in message
news:39D0E216.80B9DB58@switch.com

Silly me. I answered my own question by reading the readme file. NTFS is
not supported. Now the question is why? If you are seeking to grow your
developer base as one of the goals of this release, wouldn’t it be a good
assumption that a lot of potential developers work in companies where
WinNT
and NTFS prevail?

I don’t think NTFS prevails.

Win98 is the consumer OS, so why support that first?

If I install a second hard drive, formatted Fat32, in my NT4.0 box, would
I
be able to install and run from that?

Scott

“J. Scott Franko” wrote:

What’s wrong with using NTFS? During the install, it said something
like, since I wasn’t using Windows 98, I had two problems to contend
with, one it said something about not liking NTFS, and two it said it
need to create a boot floppy. Did it create a boot floppy to contend
with an NTFS install? Or is NTFS just not supported. It also said
something about dma/no dma, and that I would have a choice if I chose
not to build a floppy during the install. I chose to build the floppy
during the install, but there was no choice for dma/no dma there. Would
the choose be there from the standalone utility?

The install progressed without any problem. When I tried to boot, I
passed all the dots, got all the way to the detect eide message, then it
said “/.diskroot file for root not found on any filesystem”. It went on
to say:

starting with safe mode
[4102] fs-pkg …
warning [/pkgs/base/safe-config/etc/system/packages/packages] doesn’t
seem to exist
can’t access package config file
unable to access packages

and then it just sits there. I assume it’s related to the complaint
about NTFS in the install, but I have no way of knowing, so I ask the
question here.

Scott

Because M$ does not release specs for NTFS. Linux driver is based on
reverse-engineered specs AFAIK. QNX can’t do that because they might be
sued.

Are you sure about this? I thought that the specs were available, since they
have been used by Partitionmagic and, more significantly, by BeOS to provide
NTFS access, at least to “read” levels, if not “write”.

BeOS is particularly significant since they clearly will not “reverse
engineer” anything because of potential litigation - the reason that BeOS
doesn’t run on Apple G3 hardware, for instance.

I’m afraid that I can’t point you to a copy of the specs, but I’m positive
that they are available.

Regards,
Alex

So why BeOS can do it ?
You have to boot with a BeOS floppy but you can read ntfs…

Igor Kovalenko wrote:

“J. Scott Franko” wrote:

Silly me. I answered my own question by reading the readme file. NTFS is
not supported. Now the question is why? If you are seeking to grow your
developer base as one of the goals of this release, wouldn’t it be a good
assumption that a lot of potential developers work in companies where WinNT
and NTFS prevail? Win98 is the consumer OS, so why support that first?

Because M$ does not release specs for NTFS. Linux driver is based on
reverse-engineered specs AFAIK. QNX can’t do that because they might be
sued.

If I install a second hard drive, formatted Fat32, in my NT4.0 box, would I
be able to install and run from that?


Yes. You can also ‘squeeze’ your NTFS partition by Partition Magic and
create FAT32 in freed space. Either way, it will work.

Dual booting will be your own responsibility though, because RTP install
does not support NT loader. It is reasonably easy to do, I suggest you
to search Deja-News archives for “dual boot QNX and NT”, description was
posted in comp.os.qnx quite a few times I believe.

It should go into FAQ anyway.

  • igor

Mario Charest wrote:

“J. Scott Franko” <> jsfranko@switch.com> > wrote in message
news:> 39D0E216.80B9DB58@switch.com> …
Silly me. I answered my own question by reading the readme file. NTFS is
not supported. Now the question is why? If you are seeking to grow your
developer base as one of the goals of this release, wouldn’t it be a good
assumption that a lot of potential developers work in companies where
WinNT
and NTFS prevail?

I don’t think NTFS prevails.

It does in the two companies I have worked for in the last 16 years: Lockheed
Martin, and Union Switch and Signal.

Win98 is the consumer OS, so why support that first?

If I install a second hard drive, formatted Fat32, in my NT4.0 box, would
I
be able to install and run from that?

Scott

“J. Scott Franko” wrote:

What’s wrong with using NTFS? During the install, it said something
like, since I wasn’t using Windows 98, I had two problems to contend
with, one it said something about not liking NTFS, and two it said it
need to create a boot floppy. Did it create a boot floppy to contend
with an NTFS install? Or is NTFS just not supported. It also said
something about dma/no dma, and that I would have a choice if I chose
not to build a floppy during the install. I chose to build the floppy
during the install, but there was no choice for dma/no dma there. Would
the choose be there from the standalone utility?

The install progressed without any problem. When I tried to boot, I
passed all the dots, got all the way to the detect eide message, then it
said “/.diskroot file for root not found on any filesystem”. It went on
to say:

starting with safe mode
[4102] fs-pkg …
warning [/pkgs/base/safe-config/etc/system/packages/packages] doesn’t
seem to exist
can’t access package config file
unable to access packages

and then it just sits there. I assume it’s related to the complaint
about NTFS in the install, but I have no way of knowing, so I ask the
question here.

Scott

thanks!

Igor Kovalenko wrote:

“J. Scott Franko” wrote:

Silly me. I answered my own question by reading the readme file. NTFS is
not supported. Now the question is why? If you are seeking to grow your
developer base as one of the goals of this release, wouldn’t it be a good
assumption that a lot of potential developers work in companies where WinNT
and NTFS prevail? Win98 is the consumer OS, so why support that first?

Because M$ does not release specs for NTFS. Linux driver is based on
reverse-engineered specs AFAIK. QNX can’t do that because they might be
sued.

If I install a second hard drive, formatted Fat32, in my NT4.0 box, would I
be able to install and run from that?


Yes. You can also ‘squeeze’ your NTFS partition by Partition Magic and
create FAT32 in freed space. Either way, it will work.

Dual booting will be your own responsibility though, because RTP install
does not support NT loader. It is reasonably easy to do, I suggest you
to search Deja-News archives for “dual boot QNX and NT”, description was
posted in comp.os.qnx quite a few times I believe.

It should go into FAQ anyway.

  • igor

Ok, I searched deja news and the most promising thing I found from the windows side
was to add an entry to the [operating systems] section of the c:\boot.ini file
something like:

c:\boot.qnx=“QNX RealTime Platform”

where c:\boot.qnx is a snapshot of the boot sector for QNX. This was for QNX
4.25. Unfortunately it was not too clear on how to create the boot.qnx file other
than to say to use some NT tools.

I actually already have been successful with a QNX4 and NT dual boot, uses QNX’s
boot loader. Pressing the partition number at startup does the job.

But how can I do either of these methods with QRTP. Does someone have some direct
steps I can use to capture the QRTP boot sector into a c:\boot.qnx file? Or once I
do the QRTP load on the second fat32 hard drive, will the QRTP boot loader have the
same partition number trick? Anyone been successfull with this yet?

I’ve seen the readme file suggest loadqnx.sys with an argument of qnxbase.ifs in
the config.sys for windows 98. As far as I know there is no config.sys for NT.
Is there a way to make this entry in the boot.ini file to make a menu item to boot
the second hard drive using the NT loader?

Scott

“J. Scott Franko” wrote:

thanks!

Igor Kovalenko wrote:

“J. Scott Franko” wrote:

Silly me. I answered my own question by reading the readme file. NTFS is
not supported. Now the question is why? If you are seeking to grow your
developer base as one of the goals of this release, wouldn’t it be a good
assumption that a lot of potential developers work in companies where WinNT
and NTFS prevail? Win98 is the consumer OS, so why support that first?

Because M$ does not release specs for NTFS. Linux driver is based on
reverse-engineered specs AFAIK. QNX can’t do that because they might be
sued.

If I install a second hard drive, formatted Fat32, in my NT4.0 box, would I
be able to install and run from that?


Yes. You can also ‘squeeze’ your NTFS partition by Partition Magic and
create FAT32 in freed space. Either way, it will work.

Dual booting will be your own responsibility though, because RTP install
does not support NT loader. It is reasonably easy to do, I suggest you
to search Deja-News archives for “dual boot QNX and NT”, description was
posted in comp.os.qnx quite a few times I believe.

It should go into FAQ anyway.

  • igor

Use dd.
dd if=/dev/(wherever qnx is) of=boot.qnx bs=512 count=1
then move the boot.qnx file to your windows (c:) partition.

Don’t get of’s and if’s mixed up, BAD things can happen if you start
writing to your harddrives.

Thor.

“J. Scott Franko” wrote:

Ok, I searched deja news and the most promising thing I found from the windows side
was to add an entry to the [operating systems] section of the c:\boot.ini file
something like:

c:\boot.qnx=“QNX RealTime Platform”

where c:\boot.qnx is a snapshot of the boot sector for QNX. This was for QNX
4.25. Unfortunately it was not too clear on how to create the boot.qnx file other
than to say to use some NT tools.
–snip–
Scott

“J. Scott Franko” wrote:

This is assuming I will be able to boot the QNX RTP once I am done installing it. Don’t
I need the boot.qnx file already just to boot the RTP? Is there some windows tool that I
can use? I can use this information to add an entry in NT for my QNX4 partition since I
can boot into that ok with the qnx boot loader. But the QNX4 boot sector won’t work for
RTP will it?

Scott

Thor Bernhardsen wrote:

Use dd.
dd if=/dev/(wherever qnx is) of=boot.qnx bs=512 count=1
then move the boot.qnx file to your windows (c:) partition.

Don’t get of’s and if’s mixed up, BAD things can happen if you start
writing to your harddrives.

Thor.

“J. Scott Franko” wrote:

Ok, I searched deja news and the most promising thing I found from the windows side
was to add an entry to the [operating systems] section of the c:\boot.ini file
something like:

c:\boot.qnx=“QNX RealTime Platform”

where c:\boot.qnx is a snapshot of the boot sector for QNX. This was for QNX
4.25. Unfortunately it was not too clear on how to create the boot.qnx file other
than to say to use some NT tools.
–snip–
Scott

“J. Scott Franko” wrote:

Hi J.

if i`m right, you simply want to eather make space within the
primary partion 1024 boundry on your NTFS drive as Igor said use PM,
then install RTP there, then have a bootloader so you can boot
whatever whenever.

you should checkout XOSL, it says in the doc that it can boot
NT, dos, win9x, and more.

it has a very nice GUI that you can use a mouse with too, very easy to
setup and use booting to several OS`s when i tryed it a ways back although
i havent try it with RTP yet as i prefer to use a binary file so i can
make backup to my mitsumi CR-4804TE CDRW drive in windas.

(by the way whats the prospect of a CDRW fileing system for RTP,
any time soon from QSL or 3rd party drivers ?, this would be one of
the most useful things i can think of as i could just wack a CDRW
in there and boot when i find out how to make bootable HDs and floppys
and perhaps one day CDRW).

the XOSL also comes with Ranish Partion Manager, my copys dated
march 14th 2000 V2.38 beta 1.91.
it says http://www.users.intercom.com/~ranish/par is the contact
address the the latest RPM doc

remember i take no responsability for this or what it might do
to your drives, plus the doc says something about a patch and what he
tested it on, heres a section of the Randish doc.

Partition Manager Announcements only list: partman-announcements@onelist.com
Partition Manager Discussion and Questions: partman-discussion@onelist.com

Archives are available at http://www.onelist.com/group/partman-discussion

http://come.to/ranishhttp://www.users.intercom.com/~ranish/part
i dont have a link for XOSL but i assume it will from the above, or use
a search engine.
"

Settings for FAT file systems. There are three values that you can set in
FAT-16/FAT-32 boot sector.

Starting sector - its value should correspond to starting sector (hit F4)
of the partition for the primary partitions and is 63 for logical
drives. If you want to turn logical drive into a bootable primary
partition among other things you will need to change this value.

Drive number - you need to edit this option if you want to boot DOS
or Windows from the second hard drive. This number must be set
to 128 (80h) for the first hard drive and 129 (81h) for the
second. Also, note that you have to hide all primary FAT
partitions on the first hard drive in order to boot DOS or
Windows 95 from the second.

Partition size - this one is the most interesting number for us. It
tells us how many sectors there is in the partition. If we make
it smaller DOS (or Windows 95) will think that the partition is
smaller, thus we can shrink partitions (see below).

Hint: if you press ‘X’ all three, starting sector, drive number, and
the partition size, will be set to their expected values.

The final FAT-16 option is a patch for DOS boot sector - it resolves
the problem when DOS cannot boot from the partitions over 2G from
the beginning of the disk. In addition to this, it allows you to
dual boot MS-DOS and OSR2, which was not possible before, since
OSR2’s FAT-16 boot sector has bugs. Press “F6” to install the patch,
then choose OS that you wish to run and press F2 to save changes
to the boot sector.

The patch was tested with MS-DOS 6.22, PC-DOS 7.00, DR-DOS 7.02
Windows 95 OSR2, Windows 98 (Aug98), and Windows NT 4.0 (SP0-5).

\

Installing NT to partitions above 2G from the beginning of disk.

  1. Prepare empty space or primary FAT-16 partition for NT.

  2. Hide any other primary FAT-12 / FAT-16 partitions.

  3. Boot from the NT Setup Floppy Disk #1

  4. When NT asks whether you want FAT or NTFS file system choose FAT.

  5. Let NT copy all the files from the CD-ROM.

  6. Upon the reboot run Partition Manager and install special patch for
    Windows NT into FAT-16’s boot sector. To do that first select NT’s
    partition and press Enter, then press F6 to install patch, then,
    in the dialog box choose “Windows NT” and finally press F2 to save
    changes to the boot sector.

  7. For the first time reboot from NT partition while holding down
    ‘Ctrl’ key. (This will load alternative NT loader “$LDR$”).
    Let NT finish the setup procedure and ask you to reboot.

  8. Reboot computer. Everything should work now.

If you need to install NT 4.0 above 4G then you must either have SP5
or get at least files “NTDETECT.COM” and “NTLDR” from SP5 and update
them on the hard drive after the first reboot.


"
end of quote



Paul May, Manchester, UK
Team Phoenix Core

“J. Scott Franko” wrote:

This is assuming I will be able to boot the QNX RTP once I am done installing it. Don’t
I need the boot.qnx file already just to boot the RTP?

Create boot floppy during installation and boot from it. Save output
file of dd to another (DOS) floppy and use it to move it into Windows.

Is there some windows tool that I
can use? I can use this information to add an entry in NT for my QNX4 partition since I
can boot into that ok with the qnx boot loader. But the QNX4 boot sector won’t work for
RTP will it?

probably not

Scott

Thor Bernhardsen wrote:

Use dd.
dd if=/dev/(wherever qnx is) of=boot.qnx bs=512 count=1
then move the boot.qnx file to your windows (c:) partition.

Don’t get of’s and if’s mixed up, BAD things can happen if you start
writing to your harddrives.

Thor.

“J. Scott Franko” wrote:

Ok, I searched deja news and the most promising thing I found from the windows side
was to add an entry to the [operating systems] section of the c:\boot.ini file
something like:

c:\boot.qnx=“QNX RealTime Platform”

where c:\boot.qnx is a snapshot of the boot sector for QNX. This was for QNX
4.25. Unfortunately it was not too clear on how to create the boot.qnx file other
than to say to use some NT tools.
–snip–
Scott

“J. Scott Franko” wrote:

I seem to have the same boot problem. I am using win 98 and had no problem
until just past the eide message when I get the same as you ! Any help would
be appreciated !!

Marty

“J. Scott Franko” wrote:

What’s wrong with using NTFS? During the install, it said something
like, since I wasn’t using Windows 98, I had two problems to contend
with, one it said something about not liking NTFS, and two it said it
need to create a boot floppy. Did it create a boot floppy to contend
with an NTFS install? Or is NTFS just not supported. It also said
something about dma/no dma, and that I would have a choice if I chose
not to build a floppy during the install. I chose to build the floppy
during the install, but there was no choice for dma/no dma there. Would
the choose be there from the standalone utility?

The install progressed without any problem. When I tried to boot, I
passed all the dots, got all the way to the detect eide message, then it
said “/.diskroot file for root not found on any filesystem”. It went on
to say:

starting with safe mode
[4102] fs-pkg …
warning [/pkgs/base/safe-config/etc/system/packages/packages] doesn’t
seem to exist
can’t access package config file
unable to access packages

and then it just sits there. I assume it’s related to the complaint
about NTFS in the install, but I have no way of knowing, so I ask the
question here.

Scott


Martin H. Habicht & Associates
176 Knudson Drive, Kanata, Ontario, K2K 2C6 CANADA
Tel: 613-592-6982
E-mail: martyh@home.com

Igor Kovalenko <kovalenko@home.com> wrote:

“J. Scott Franko” wrote:

This is assuming I will be able to boot the QNX RTP once I am done installing it. Don’t
I need the boot.qnx file already just to boot the RTP?

Create boot floppy during installation and boot from it. Save output
file of dd to another (DOS) floppy and use it to move it into Windows.

Is there some windows tool that I
can use? I can use this information to add an entry in NT for my QNX4 partition since I
can boot into that ok with the qnx boot loader. But the QNX4 boot sector won’t work for
RTP will it?

probably not

Actually, I’m pretty sure it will. Even if it doesn’t, you can install the
boot loader that comes with RTP. It works the same as the QNX4 one…
hit the numeric digit of the partition number you want to boot.

Man, you guys are running away with yourselves…

I have the exact same problem as J. Scott Franko, and I read the postings
with interest as I thought I was about to solve my NTFS problem. Sadly
things seem to have gogt extremely technical assuming you have a great
knowledge (unlike myself) of file systems.

Is there anyone who can give me a step by step guide to getting QNX RT to
boot from the floppy?

Many thanks

Greg

gperinguey@global.co.za






<pete@qnx.com> wrote in message news:8qtfjr$fc0$11@inn.qnx.com

Igor Kovalenko <> kovalenko@home.com> > wrote:
“J. Scott Franko” wrote:

This is assuming I will be able to boot the QNX RTP once I am done
installing it. Don’t
I need the boot.qnx file already just to boot the RTP?

Create boot floppy during installation and boot from it. Save output
file of dd to another (DOS) floppy and use it to move it into Windows.

Is there some windows tool that I
can use? I can use this information to add an entry in NT for my QNX4
partition since I
can boot into that ok with the qnx boot loader. But the QNX4 boot
sector won’t work for
RTP will it?

probably not

Actually, I’m pretty sure it will. Even if it doesn’t, you can install the
boot loader that comes with RTP. It works the same as the QNX4 one…
hit the numeric digit of the partition number you want to boot.

Well, I finally got the rtp installed. I had to get a KVM switch and a
second computer to do it (Well, I didn’t need the KVM switch, but it made it
easier to switch between computers with one keyboard, mouse and monitor). I
borrowed a machine that had a small dos partition, a 2gb NT partition and a
2gb solaris partition. I overwrote the NT partition, and chose to stick
with the system commander boot manager, and I got the same exact startup
problem I got with the rtp installed inside an NTFS partition, that I
mentioned at the beginning of this thread.

I re-installed and this time chose to use the QNX boot manager, and
everything worked! But it did boot safe mode on the pkg installer again.
But it worked!

Now, first impressions:

Who switched a BeOS install CD for my RTP CD. The menu on the right looks
just like BeOS. And the rest of the desktop looks like the architect or
paper theme from MacOS 8. The terminal’s font is too light grey and almost
blends into the black background of the terminal, and most of the user
interface elements look like interlaced TV images, instead of sharp
graphics. I’m kinda missing my QNX4 Photon interface. :frowning:

Now all that may sound like a lot of nitpicking, and may sound like I
actually despise the desktop. I don’t. For the most part, its a perfectly
usable and somewhat nice looking desktop.

I haven’t seen any of the guts of the system yet, as I finished the install
about 5 minutes ago. So on we go!

Scott

Actually you can use the NT boot.ini to boot BeOS (run ADDBEOS.EXE under NT)
And I don’t think M$ gives away freely NTFSv5 specs, not their kind, maybe they sell it ?

Herve PARISSI
“You assume too much” (The Menace Phantom)

“Maldoror” <maldoror69.nospam@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message news: 39D1001F.5C8654F3@yahoo.com

So why BeOS can do it ?
You have to boot with a BeOS floppy but you can read ntfs…

Den 11 okt 2000 18:13 skrev dfkt69@yahoo.com (dfkt):

please, where can that QNXRTP bootloader be found?
i was searching, but without luck…

Afaik only with the qnx rtp distribution (either the download, or
orderable cd). Believe me, it’s not something you want to use, unless
absolutely neccessary.


Arve Bersvendsen.
Mirror av XNews (03.09.22) -
http://www.bersvendsen.com/usenet/xnews/