About to install QNX - any advice?

QNX Newsgroups (Archives) qdn.public.qnxrtp.installation
#1

I’m about to try the free QNX.

I thought I’d try to save some time and be wise before the event;
does anyone anticipate any problems on the following system:

AMD Athlon 800MHz CPU
128MB SDRAM
MSI MS-6330 (K7T pro) (VIA chipset) mobo with AC97 audio
Riva TNT2 32MB AGP graphics (nVidia Riva Vanta M64)
Fujitsu UDMA 66 19.2GB HDD
Pioneer DVD-A04SZ CD drive
Mitsumi CD-RW 4804TE drive
Epson 760 printer (Parallel connected)
Conexant 56k PCI softmodem
PCI soundcard AC97 audio (ALS4000 chip)
ST STV680 chipset USB webcam (Digitaldream L’esprit)
Windows ME

(I use the soundcard audio in addition to the motherboard audio
for more I/O channels; they happily coexist as AC97 devices;
all their SB “emulation” is disabled)

I’ve downloaded the zip file; would I be better off with the ISO?
Any other advice how best to proceed; eg. to partition or not…

I want to try out QNX to see how it performs in realtime signal
processing applications. Speech coders, software modems,
wireless comms, videophony etc. The latency of OS like Windows
means high delay which is unacceptable in such applications.

I understand there’s a Tcl/Tk port for QNX; I have a lot of tools
in Tcl/Tk; will I have to build it or can I download it?

Ant

#2

A wise thing for you would be to wait :wink:
RTP at this point does not support softmodems at all. USB support is not out
yet (although it is in beta), not to mention USB vebcams. And I’m afraid
that neither of your 2 soundcards are supported. No CR/RW software and there
won’t be until CAM support is implemented (also in the works).

The version you have is beta which was released to gather users feedback
while missing stuff is being worked on. Perhaps when they do release you
might want to look again.

  • igor

“The Martins” <the.martins@freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:3A3AE20B.C4FBCF28@freeuk.com…

I’m about to try the free QNX.

I thought I’d try to save some time and be wise before the event;
does anyone anticipate any problems on the following system:

AMD Athlon 800MHz CPU
128MB SDRAM
MSI MS-6330 (K7T pro) (VIA chipset) mobo with AC97 audio
Riva TNT2 32MB AGP graphics (nVidia Riva Vanta M64)
Fujitsu UDMA 66 19.2GB HDD
Pioneer DVD-A04SZ CD drive
Mitsumi CD-RW 4804TE drive
Epson 760 printer (Parallel connected)
Conexant 56k PCI softmodem
PCI soundcard AC97 audio (ALS4000 chip)
ST STV680 chipset USB webcam (Digitaldream L’esprit)
Windows ME

(I use the soundcard audio in addition to the motherboard audio
for more I/O channels; they happily coexist as AC97 devices;
all their SB “emulation” is disabled)

I’ve downloaded the zip file; would I be better off with the ISO?
Any other advice how best to proceed; eg. to partition or not…

I want to try out QNX to see how it performs in realtime signal
processing applications. Speech coders, software modems,
wireless comms, videophony etc. The latency of OS like Windows
means high delay which is unacceptable in such applications.

I understand there’s a Tcl/Tk port for QNX; I have a lot of tools
in Tcl/Tk; will I have to build it or can I download it?

Ant

#3

Igor Kovalenko wrote:

A wise thing for you would be to wait > :wink:
RTP at this point does not support softmodems at all.

Not serious - as long as I can get updates via ANother OS.

I’ve got plenty of experience developing software
modems. Wireless ones, rather than line ones.

I hope it has drivers for AC97 controller chips though.


USB support is not out
yet (although it is in beta), not to mention USB vebcams

This is a common cheap method of inputting video
digitally ATM.

I noticed some intention to support keyboards & printers;
things that don’t need to be realtime at all, and are only used
for debugging embedded devices. Unlike video, audio
handsets, VOIP…

Strikes me QNX is concentrating on things desktops
do rather than things embedded devices do. It won’t
win over desktops for web surfing; it should be aiming
for applications like internet videophones… where the
performance of desktops is chronically awful. Is
QNX trying to be a reliable OS for industrial control
or a small efficient RTOS for QoS consumer boxes?
Or everything to all men. Maybe it should stop trying
to be it’s own development environment.

Many embedded devices need to be USB-connectable
as endpoints rather than as root hubs.

Unfortunately no adequate standards exist for webcams
and each comes with a driver. Many other USB devices
are similar, above the USB link level. At this point
a CPU and OS portable driver is needed to support
devices like digital cameras connected to PDAs, mobile
phones, STBs etc. Perhaps Java has some answers.


. And I’m afraid
that neither of your 2 soundcards are supported.

As far as I’m concerned, (and Intel etc) Soundblaster is
legacy hardware. I hope nobody developing applications
today would want to support it. The scatter-gather DMA
you get with AC97 controllers at last gives decent sample
I/O technology.

I’ve looked at the details of ELSA and the current version
of ELSA supports AC97, the VIA chipset etc.The version
shipped with QNX doesn’t. Needs a little tidying up, but
nothing serious.

I’m not sure ELSA has a clear model for supporting
generalised sample i/o devices that might be cards, might
be USB handsets, modems etc, and may not even
expose an audio API to applications; eg modems. One
wouldn’t want the whole of ELSA in a device that uses the
VT82C686 drivers for a modem…

Perhaps the QNX developers have something better?


No CR/RW software and there
won’t be until CAM support is implemented (also in the works).

Presumably QNX does not have a native CD filesystem,
relying on ISO9660 & UDF. Isn’t it possible to burn any
set of QNX files using Nero?

How is it doing with 19GB disks? UDMA66? Graphics chips
with mpeg video acceleration? Is it installable on typical
off-the-shelf systems at all ATM? OK most embedded systems
don’t have disks, unless you’re recording video on them.
But they are handy for developing.


The version you have is beta which was released to gather users feedback
while missing stuff is being worked on. Perhaps when they do release you
might want to look again.

Ant

#4

“The Martins” <the.martins@freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:3A3EC744.23F8B27C@freeuk.com…

Igor Kovalenko wrote:

A wise thing for you would be to wait > :wink:
RTP at this point does not support softmodems at all.

Not serious - as long as I can get updates via ANother OS.

I’ve got plenty of experience developing software
modems. Wireless ones, rather than line ones.

I hope it has drivers for AC97 controller chips though.

Well may be you can write a wireless modem/net driver or two then :wink:
Many people miss wireless stuff.

USB support is not out
yet (although it is in beta), not to mention USB vebcams

This is a common cheap method of inputting video
digitally ATM.

I noticed some intention to support keyboards & printers;
things that don’t need to be realtime at all, and are only used
for debugging embedded devices. Unlike video, audio
handsets, VOIP…

Strikes me QNX is concentrating on things desktops
do rather than things embedded devices do. It won’t
win over desktops for web surfing; it should be aiming
for applications like internet videophones… where the
performance of desktops is chronically awful. Is
QNX trying to be a reliable OS for industrial control
or a small efficient RTOS for QoS consumer boxes?
Or everything to all men. Maybe it should stop trying
to be it’s own development environment.

Being self-hosted has many advantages. And won’t find many supporters of
this proposal here.

In fact QNX is concentrating on embedded stuff. They are not trying to
compete in desktop area. What they are trying to do is come up with a
desktop-suited x86-only distribution which would be good enough for people
to develop on it and have some fun. They are trying to make it cute and
self-advertizing.

Their product meanwhile supports other embedded targets, like PPC, MIPS,
SH, StrongARM, flash filesystems, etc.

Many embedded devices need to be USB-connectable
as endpoints rather than as root hubs.

Unfortunately no adequate standards exist for webcams
and each comes with a driver. Many other USB devices
are similar, above the USB link level. At this point
a CPU and OS portable driver is needed to support
devices like digital cameras connected to PDAs, mobile
phones, STBs etc. Perhaps Java has some answers.

They have generic UHCI and OHCI drivers in beta. The rest is in question
yet.

. And I’m afraid
that neither of your 2 soundcards are supported.

As far as I’m concerned, (and Intel etc) Soundblaster is
legacy hardware. I hope nobody developing applications
today would want to support it. The scatter-gather DMA
you get with AC97 controllers at last gives decent sample
I/O technology.

I’ve looked at the details of ELSA and the current version
of ELSA supports AC97, the VIA chipset etc.The version
shipped with QNX doesn’t. Needs a little tidying up, but
nothing serious.

I’m not sure ELSA has a clear model for supporting
generalised sample i/o devices that might be cards, might
be USB handsets, modems etc, and may not even
expose an audio API to applications; eg modems. One
wouldn’t want the whole of ELSA in a device that uses the
VT82C686 drivers for a modem…

Perhaps the QNX developers have something better?


No CR/RW software and there
won’t be until CAM support is implemented (also in the works).

Presumably QNX does not have a native CD filesystem,
relying on ISO9660 & UDF. Isn’t it possible to burn any
set of QNX files using Nero?

Trouble is not so much with filesystems. They have ISO9660+RockRidge+Joliet,
but read-only. No UDF though. It is easy to build a suitable image using
mkisofs, but harder part is to burn it, since drivers do not adequately
support pass-through mode.

How is it doing with 19GB disks?

fine.

UDMA66?

not yet. UDMA33 for now.

Graphics chips
with mpeg video acceleration?

don’t know

Is it installable on typical
off-the-shelf systems at all ATM?

you’re contradicting yourself, aren’t you?

OK most embedded systems
don’t have disks, unless you’re recording video on them.
But they are handy for developing.

  • igor
#5

Igor Kovalenko wrote:

Well may be you can write a wireless modem/net driver or two then > :wink:
Many people miss wireless stuff.

GSM, 3G or 802.11? WLAN cards or mobile phones?

There is a pair of cheap 2.4GHz WLAN cards we’re not using at work
They’re rebadged Rockwell manufacture. PCMCIA with adaptor cards.
My PC’s got no ISA slots, could be a problem. I’d also have to find
a second PC from somewhere; my old 486 laptop won’t do.

I’ve been thinking of doing a GPLed V90 softmodem; all OS outside
of Windows can’t do softmodems, and nobody’s fixing it, just lots of
excuses. The problem isn’t (as I see it) lack of hardware info, it’s more
to do with the technical difficulty & amount of work.

A softmodem isn’t a driver. It would need a driver, but on that sits a
complex multi-mode signal processing task and a protocol stack task
About 70% legacy rubbish too. I’m sure there’s also some IPR issues
with the algorithms. With the introduction of R&TTE in europe, modem
type-approval issues have ceased to exist.

Many PCs (esp. laptops) have these modems built into the motherboards;
the current situation isn’t very satisfactory.

How is it doing with 19GB disks?

fine.

UDMA66?

not yet. UDMA33 for now.

So if I install, it will work on a UDMA66 HDD, just performance
will be slightly affected as it’ll only be running as a UDMA33?

Is it installable on typical
off-the-shelf systems at all ATM?

you’re contradicting yourself, aren’t you?

I was getting the feeling that systems to run QNX must be built-to-spec.
Any catalogue item or shop shelf PC has too much unsupported stuff.

This is one of the big problems with Solaris.

#6

The Martins wrote:

Igor Kovalenko wrote:

Well may be you can write a wireless modem/net driver or two then > :wink:
Many people miss wireless stuff.

GSM, 3G or 802.11? WLAN cards or mobile phones?

Just anything, to begin with. Whatever is easier.

There is a pair of cheap 2.4GHz WLAN cards we’re not using at work
They’re rebadged Rockwell manufacture. PCMCIA with adaptor cards.
My PC’s got no ISA slots, could be a problem. I’d also have to find
a second PC from somewhere; my old 486 laptop won’t do.

I’ve been thinking of doing a GPLed V90 softmodem; all OS outside
of Windows can’t do softmodems, and nobody’s fixing it, just lots of
excuses. The problem isn’t (as I see it) lack of hardware info, it’s more
to do with the technical difficulty & amount of work.

A softmodem isn’t a driver. It would need a driver, but on that sits a
complex multi-mode signal processing task and a protocol stack task
About 70% legacy rubbish too. I’m sure there’s also some IPR issues
with the algorithms. With the introduction of R&TTE in europe, modem
type-approval issues have ceased to exist.

Many PCs (esp. laptops) have these modems built into the motherboards;
the current situation isn’t very satisfactory.


How is it doing with 19GB disks?

fine.

UDMA66?

not yet. UDMA33 for now.

So if I install, it will work on a UDMA66 HDD, just performance
will be slightly affected as it’ll only be running as a UDMA33?

If your BIOS will initialize chipset into UDMA4 mode, it won’t use UDMA
under RTP at all. You need to force it into UDMA2 mode, either using
BIOS settings or by disabling UDMA4 on the drive.

Is it installable on typical
off-the-shelf systems at all ATM?

you’re contradicting yourself, aren’t you?

I was getting the feeling that systems to run QNX must be built-to-spec.
Any catalogue item or shop shelf PC has too much unsupported stuff.

This is one of the big problems with Solaris.

They’re are doing better than it used to be with QNX4, so we have some
reasons for optimism :wink:

  • igor
#7

The Martins wrote:

I’ve been thinking of doing a GPLed V90 softmodem; all OS outside
of Windows can’t do softmodems, and nobody’s fixing it, just lots of
excuses. The problem isn’t (as I see it) lack of hardware info, it’s more
to do with the technical difficulty & amount of work.

BeOS supports two different brands of softmodem. I’m pretty sure there
are Lucent softmodem drivers for Linux and possibly for the Motorola
SM56 softmodem chip too. There will never be USR Winmodem drivers for
anything but Windows. USR is harder to get technical info out of than
Apple! :stuck_out_tongue: I wonder if QRTP will support the AC97 sound/modem stuff and
the newfangled AMR slot that is becoming practically unavoidable on
new motherboards.