The Consultant point of View

On 6 Feb 2002 10:34:32 GMT, “ed1k” <ed1k@yahoo.com> wrote:

Kevin Stallard <> kevin@ffflyingrobots.com> > wrote in article <a3q8a3$o28$> 1@inn.qnx.com> >…
Well, I mean stuff that is a lot more basic than that. I was talking more
about the icon, mouse, click this, move a mouse of that and things happen.
The whole UI experience is a almost a discipline in it self. Quite frankly
I think they’ve done a pretty good job of it.

I heard that work was done by XEROX. I may be wrong, thought.

Eduard.

OK, time for a history quiz. Take out a clean sheet of paper and a
sharp pencil. (Answers below, at least as far as I can recall them.)
Q:

  1. Microsoft licensed the desktop GUI from who (or whom)?
  2. The answer to #1 more or less copied the idea from its place of
    origin. What organization was that?
  3. Who was the person usually credited with the desktop metaphor in
    the first place? (Not Ivan Sutherland, I think he invented the cursor
    pointing device.)
  4. Where is that person (answer to #3) now working?

Answers (with personal confidence level):

  1. Apple Computer (100%)
  2. Xerox Palo Alto Research Center (100%).
  3. Alan Kay – or have I dredged up the wrong historical reference
    (75%).
  4. Microsoft Research Center (40%).


    Bob Bottemiller
    Stein.DSI/Redmond, WA USA

“Bob Bottemiller” <bob.bottemiller@deletefmcti.com> wrote in message
news:3c6152d0.902287@inn.qnx.com

On 6 Feb 2002 10:34:32 GMT, “ed1k” <> ed1k@yahoo.com> > wrote:

Kevin Stallard <> kevin@ffflyingrobots.com> > wrote in article
a3q8a3$o28$> 1@inn.qnx.com> >…
Well, I mean stuff that is a lot more basic than that. I was talking
more
about the icon, mouse, click this, move a mouse of that and things
happen.
The whole UI experience is a almost a discipline in it self. Quite
frankly
I think they’ve done a pretty good job of it.

I heard that work was done by XEROX. I may be wrong, thought.

Eduard.

OK, time for a history quiz. Take out a clean sheet of paper and a
sharp pencil. (Answers below, at least as far as I can recall them.)
Q:

  1. Microsoft licensed the desktop GUI from who (or whom)?

The way it appears in the ‘Pirates of Silicon Valley’ is more like
‘Microsoft stole the idea of desktop GUI from whom?’ Basically, Bill Gates
told Steve Jobs he wants a prototype of new Apple to write some software for
it. In reality he wanted to write a competing product to sell to IBM. And
Steve Jobs was in giving mood at that moment… MS desktops never really
surpassed Apple and there is even an episode in the movie where Steve tells
Bill after learning what he did ‘our stuff is better!’ The important thing
however is to learn Bill’s answer - ‘you don’t get it, IT DOES NOT MATTER!’

I don’t know how precise that movie is wrt historic facts though.

  • Igor

MS desktops never really

surpassed Apple and there is even an episode in the movie where Steve
tells
Bill after learning what he did ‘our stuff is better!’ The important thing
however is to learn Bill’s answer - ‘you don’t get it, IT DOES NOT
MATTER!’

How true, no matter how we claim how great QNX6 is, it doesn’t
really matter, until the people that can’t judge by themselves beleive
it is… In the balance of thing I beleive it’s less import then
we like to believe, cause in the QNX world that’s all we got.

I don’t know how precise that movie is wrt historic facts though.

  • Igor

For those interested in obscuria. The origins of a GUI
preceed even Xerox Park. In the mid 80’s I saw a series of
lectures at the Palace of Fine Arts in San Francisco (Think
Exloratorium + Auditorium). These facinating lectures
included a talk by Wozniak about his early days as a phone
freak and hotel movie thief. Also quite amazing was a talk
by Eugene Amdahl, even though it was just the corporate
commerical for his then project Trilogy, now defunct. If
you’ve never heard of Amdahl, well you are showing your
youth.

But the talk which I wish to speak of, by a lecturer who’s
name I don’t remember, included the theory that all advanced
technologies go through three or four stages before becoming
commercially successful. The first is a research stage,
usually at a university. The middle stages include the
first and maybe second commercial attempts. Finally you get
a commercial attempt that succeeds. The example he gave had
as steps 2 and 3 the Xerox Star and the Apple Lisa
respectively. The success at that time was the Mac.

The first stage was presented in some very old films from
MIT in the 60’s. The one of interest was a graphical
windows based system. No mouse, but it used a light pen
instead. I believe it had no keyboard either, and used the
light pen to enter text. This was very experimental and ran
off of a mainframe.

So when someone tells you that Xerox created the GUI, you can
laugh.

Mitchell Schoenbrun --------- maschoen@pobox.com

“Mitchell Schoenbrun” <maschoen@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:Voyager.020206160500.807C@schoenbrun.com

For those interested in obscuria. The origins of a GUI
preceed even Xerox Park. In the mid 80’s I saw a series of
lectures at the Palace of Fine Arts in San Francisco (Think
Exloratorium + Auditorium).

Cool place. Was the guy that balances the rocks there back then?

The first stage was presented in some very old films from
MIT in the 60’s. The one of interest was a graphical
windows based system. No mouse, but it used a light pen
instead. I believe it had no keyboard either, and used the
light pen to enter text. This was very experimental and ran
off of a mainframe.

I remember when the IBM PC first came out, the CGA supported the light pen.

We tried to buy one. They were no where to be found. Out PC distributer
allowed my to call their IBM rep to request it. The rep told me, “You don’t
want that. It doesn’t work.” I believe the problem was that they didn’t
have any software to drive it. What a shame. I could have sold a hundred
(maybe) of them to out customers.


Bill Caroselli – 1(626) 824-7983
Q-TPS Consulting
QTPS@EarthLink.net

Previously, Alec Saunders wrote in qdn.public.qnxrtp.advocacy:

Yes, QNX is not a name-brand. However, in awareness surveys amongst embedded
operating systems developers (our key audience), we rank 5th in awareness
globally, and in North America, and 3rd in awareness in Europe. We’d like
that awareness to be higher amongst developers, and also amongst business
decision makers in the organizations where they work. It’s my team’s job to
make that happen.

I guess it is time for me to speak up. I’ll be blunt, and I won’t hold
back one iota.

Awareness amoungst developers doesn’t mean a damned thing. You don’t have to
look very far to see proof, but I will spell it out for you anyway.

DEVELOPERS ARE NOT TYPICALLY THE BUSINESS DECISION MAKERS

As Alec points out, and as we all know, any developer that is worth his
salt takes one look at the architecture of QNX and almost immediately
recognises how good it is. You don’t have to do a damned thing to
“sell” a competent developer on the advantages of QNX, all you have to
do it get it in front of them and maybe give them some sample apps (with
source) to show them just how amazingly simple it is to take advantage
of the QNX arch. And the RTP “free for non-commercial” more or less
does that, although it is missing the “introduction” code & app samples
that point out in code just how good the arch is.

So the problem is the business decision makers. The problem is not that
they don’t understand what QNX is, or it’s advantages. The problem is
very simple…

THEY HAVE NEVER HEARD OF IT BEFORE

Business decisions are about risk, they are about time to market (TTM),
they are about time to quality (TTQ), and they are about time to cash
(TTC). As others have pointed out, OS arch isn’t even in there at this
level.

(for this next bit, bear with me, it DOES have relevance and is more
than just a story about my career and the company that I work for)

I’m a QNX consultant for hire, I do this part time, in the past it has
been full time, or even as an on-staff developer. My day job is with
Nortel Networks. I am certain that ALL of you know who Nortel is,
although I will bet that few of you know what we do, or what products we
make. The interesting point is that two or three years ago, most of you
had NEVER heard of Nortel.

…and that was bad. When I first started at Nortel, I was very soon
amazed at all the different products and technology they were
responsible for. The wallplates for the phone jacks the local telco
installed had NT (Northern Telecom) logos on the back of them, so did
all of my phones from the telco, and I discovered that so did many,
many, many other things. Things that I had used before, things I had
heard of. Hell, if you want to get a little technical… QSSL was
spawned by Nortel (Dan and Gord worked at Bell Northern Research,
Nortel’s R&D division at the time when they first came up with the
concept of the OS while working on similiar things at BNR). Look into
the source code trees for Linux IDE and other device drivers, you will
see the names of people from BNR, NT, and Nortel. IBDN/Bix structured
wiring, was from Nortel, several innovations now common in the
electronic circuit assembly process were pioneered at Nortel. They were
huge, they were everywhere…

AND… no one had even heard of them.

This should sound VERY familiar. It is a similiar position that QSSL is
currently facing, they are in quite a few places, they have a really
good product, they have really good support. …and they have NO
IDENTITY, and NO BRAND RECOGNITION.

Of course something happened at Nortel, we aquired (yes, I know the
trade press called it a merger, we were just being polite) Bay Networks,
and part of the deal was their CEO. The guy responsible for the
incredibly successful “intel inside” ad campaign. Nortel embarked on a
major awareness and brand identity campaign. You saw Nortel ads on tv,
you saw billboards, you opened the Globe & Mail or the Wall Street
Journal and you saw full page ads for Nortel Networks. I’m certain many
of you are familiar with them… the “What do you want the internet to
be?” and the “Come together” theme complete with the beatles tune.

Now, there was something interesting about those ads. Something a little
peculiar, or at least so people told me. They told me that the ads didn’t
tell them WHAT Nortel did, or even what we sold, they didn’t know what
message Nortel was trying to get accross.

The interesting thing is that they REMEMBERED the ads, they were
intrigued byw them, they wanted to know what Nortel was about, enough so
that they asked about it. They asked their friends, they visited the
website, they may have phoned us.

All of a sudden Nortel was a company that people recognised.

Our stock took off, split twice in a 2 year period climbed from $35 CDN
to over $120 CDN (if you calculate that out without the two splits, that
is the equivalent of going from $35 to $480).

The most important thing was that if you were in a meeting with business
decision makers and you mentioned Nortel, the first response wasn’t
“Who?”, but rather “Perhaps we should look into them”.

THAT IS WHAT QSSL NEEDS.

IT NEEDS IT DESPERATELY.
IT NEEDS IT YESTERDAY.

I really don’t think targetted advertising is going to do it. That will
reach the audience that you have already convinced, and it won’t do a
damned thing to the audience that those people (developers) need to
INFLUENCE, most developers haven’t got a clue how to influence the
business groups when they make their decisions. Most aren’t even in a
position (heirarchially) to exhert any influence that they might have.
It’s a sad, sad truth that you can have 10 people on staff in a company
like Nortel or Motorola and they can all tell “the business” that QNX is
great, and they they should try it, and that ONE SINGLE external
consultant can make the same reccomendation and presto, it gets
considered.

I (personally) think that QSSL needs to have some form of brand
awareness campaign. They should run ads on tv, targetted not at the
shows developers watch, but at the shows that business executives watch.
They should mention in those ads that QNX is behind the scenes in much
of their daily life, and that when people call 911, QNX is often
responsible for a timely dispatch of EMS personelle. They can use the
word “ROBUST”, then can say things like “THERE WHEN IT REALLY MATTERS”.
They shouldn’t say a damn thing about what it IS.

The need to have their name RECOGNISED, and that, in a nutshell is it.
The rest will take care of itself, provided that the call center people
that handle the inquiries and answer the emails, and design the website
have all the right answers and details.

I know who QSSL is, I know that QNX is the best damned OS that I well
ever see or work with. I, literally, don’t matter because I am NOT the
guy deciding to make a product, and I’m not the guy with the money to
fund it. I’m just the guy that could take QNX and make it a reality once
someone else decides that QNX is what they need. If I am lucky, I might
get to be one of the guys to advise the guy with the money, and he is the
one that matters. He is also the one that doesn’t know who or what QNX
is. That thats a problem, a really, really, really big problem.

Alec, if you do nothing else, solve this problem.

I’ll step off my soap box now, and I apologise for ranting, and
shouting.

Cheers,
Martin Zimmerman
QNX user/developer since 1985


Martin Zimmerman camz@passageway.com
Camz Software Enterprises www.passageway.com/camz/qnx/
QNX Programming & Consulting

Very well said, BUT …
A privately funded 150-employees company simply can not do a major awareness
campaign. Such a campaign would have to be sustained and very high profile
and can only be funded by stock. Being public is also VERY important for it
to succeed, because business executives are not fond of reading technical
mumbo-jumbo from websites. If they get intrigued by QNX ad, their reflex
would be to check stock performance. No stock? Too bad, no business. Public
companies also have ‘free advertizing’ in form of financial news and
analitical reviews. Even though that can be megative advertizement, it still
works to maintain brand recognition in people mind.

When QNX will go public (and I think they’d be already if not economy
slump), I am pretty sure they will do an awareness campaign. So far they
appear to be solving one problem at a time and that is not bad approach.
They improved developer awareness a lot (and that will matter when brand
awareness is there). They are focusing on solving the tools/instrumentation
issue now and it is also gonna matter when brand recognition campaign will
be started. You don’t want to spoil effect of campaign by disappointing
people who start to inquire. Bad recognition is not really better than no
recognition I guess :wink:

  • igor

“Martin Zimmerman” <camz@passageway.com> wrote in message
news:Voyager.020207015506.25258A@wooga.wooga.passageway.com

Previously, Alec Saunders wrote in qdn.public.qnxrtp.advocacy:
Yes, QNX is not a name-brand. However, in awareness surveys amongst
embedded
operating systems developers (our key audience), we rank 5th in
awareness
globally, and in North America, and 3rd in awareness in Europe. We’d
like
that awareness to be higher amongst developers, and also amongst
business
decision makers in the organizations where they work. It’s my team’s
job to
make that happen.

I guess it is time for me to speak up. I’ll be blunt, and I won’t hold
back one iota.

Awareness amoungst developers doesn’t mean a damned thing. You don’t have
to
look very far to see proof, but I will spell it out for you anyway.

DEVELOPERS ARE NOT TYPICALLY THE BUSINESS DECISION MAKERS

As Alec points out, and as we all know, any developer that is worth his
salt takes one look at the architecture of QNX and almost immediately
recognises how good it is. You don’t have to do a damned thing to
“sell” a competent developer on the advantages of QNX, all you have to
do it get it in front of them and maybe give them some sample apps (with
source) to show them just how amazingly simple it is to take advantage
of the QNX arch. And the RTP “free for non-commercial” more or less
does that, although it is missing the “introduction” code & app samples
that point out in code just how good the arch is.

So the problem is the business decision makers. The problem is not that
they don’t understand what QNX is, or it’s advantages. The problem is
very simple…

THEY HAVE NEVER HEARD OF IT BEFORE

Business decisions are about risk, they are about time to market (TTM),
they are about time to quality (TTQ), and they are about time to cash
(TTC). As others have pointed out, OS arch isn’t even in there at this
level.

(for this next bit, bear with me, it DOES have relevance and is more
than just a story about my career and the company that I work for)

I’m a QNX consultant for hire, I do this part time, in the past it has
been full time, or even as an on-staff developer. My day job is with
Nortel Networks. I am certain that ALL of you know who Nortel is,
although I will bet that few of you know what we do, or what products we
make. The interesting point is that two or three years ago, most of you
had NEVER heard of Nortel.

…and that was bad. When I first started at Nortel, I was very soon
amazed at all the different products and technology they were
responsible for. The wallplates for the phone jacks the local telco
installed had NT (Northern Telecom) logos on the back of them, so did
all of my phones from the telco, and I discovered that so did many,
many, many other things. Things that I had used before, things I had
heard of. Hell, if you want to get a little technical… QSSL was
spawned by Nortel (Dan and Gord worked at Bell Northern Research,
Nortel’s R&D division at the time when they first came up with the
concept of the OS while working on similiar things at BNR). Look into
the source code trees for Linux IDE and other device drivers, you will
see the names of people from BNR, NT, and Nortel. IBDN/Bix structured
wiring, was from Nortel, several innovations now common in the
electronic circuit assembly process were pioneered at Nortel. They were
huge, they were everywhere…

AND… no one had even heard of them.

This should sound VERY familiar. It is a similiar position that QSSL is
currently facing, they are in quite a few places, they have a really
good product, they have really good support. …and they have NO
IDENTITY, and NO BRAND RECOGNITION.

Of course something happened at Nortel, we aquired (yes, I know the
trade press called it a merger, we were just being polite) Bay Networks,
and part of the deal was their CEO. The guy responsible for the
incredibly successful “intel inside” ad campaign. Nortel embarked on a
major awareness and brand identity campaign. You saw Nortel ads on tv,
you saw billboards, you opened the Globe & Mail or the Wall Street
Journal and you saw full page ads for Nortel Networks. I’m certain many
of you are familiar with them… the “What do you want the internet to
be?” and the “Come together” theme complete with the beatles tune.

Now, there was something interesting about those ads. Something a little
peculiar, or at least so people told me. They told me that the ads didn’t
tell them WHAT Nortel did, or even what we sold, they didn’t know what
message Nortel was trying to get accross.

The interesting thing is that they REMEMBERED the ads, they were
intrigued byw them, they wanted to know what Nortel was about, enough so
that they asked about it. They asked their friends, they visited the
website, they may have phoned us.

All of a sudden Nortel was a company that people recognised.

Our stock took off, split twice in a 2 year period climbed from $35 CDN
to over $120 CDN (if you calculate that out without the two splits, that
is the equivalent of going from $35 to $480).

The most important thing was that if you were in a meeting with business
decision makers and you mentioned Nortel, the first response wasn’t
“Who?”, but rather “Perhaps we should look into them”.

THAT IS WHAT QSSL NEEDS.

IT NEEDS IT DESPERATELY.
IT NEEDS IT YESTERDAY.

I really don’t think targetted advertising is going to do it. That will
reach the audience that you have already convinced, and it won’t do a
damned thing to the audience that those people (developers) need to
INFLUENCE, most developers haven’t got a clue how to influence the
business groups when they make their decisions. Most aren’t even in a
position (heirarchially) to exhert any influence that they might have.
It’s a sad, sad truth that you can have 10 people on staff in a company
like Nortel or Motorola and they can all tell “the business” that QNX is
great, and they they should try it, and that ONE SINGLE external
consultant can make the same reccomendation and presto, it gets
considered.

I (personally) think that QSSL needs to have some form of brand
awareness campaign. They should run ads on tv, targetted not at the
shows developers watch, but at the shows that business executives watch.
They should mention in those ads that QNX is behind the scenes in much
of their daily life, and that when people call 911, QNX is often
responsible for a timely dispatch of EMS personelle. They can use the
word “ROBUST”, then can say things like “THERE WHEN IT REALLY MATTERS”.
They shouldn’t say a damn thing about what it IS.

The need to have their name RECOGNISED, and that, in a nutshell is it.
The rest will take care of itself, provided that the call center people
that handle the inquiries and answer the emails, and design the website
have all the right answers and details.

I know who QSSL is, I know that QNX is the best damned OS that I well
ever see or work with. I, literally, don’t matter because I am NOT the
guy deciding to make a product, and I’m not the guy with the money to
fund it. I’m just the guy that could take QNX and make it a reality once
someone else decides that QNX is what they need. If I am lucky, I might
get to be one of the guys to advise the guy with the money, and he is the
one that matters. He is also the one that doesn’t know who or what QNX
is. That thats a problem, a really, really, really big problem.

Alec, if you do nothing else, solve this problem.

I’ll step off my soap box now, and I apologise for ranting, and
shouting.

Cheers,
Martin Zimmerman
QNX user/developer since 1985


Martin Zimmerman > camz@passageway.com
Camz Software Enterprises > www.passageway.com/camz/qnx/
QNX Programming & Consulting
\

Mitchell Schoenbrun <maschoen@pobox.com> wrote in article
<Voyager.020206160500.807C@schoenbrun.com>…

Thanks for good historic lecture.

So when someone tells you that Xerox created the GUI, you can
laugh.

Also you can laugh if someone tells you that Microsoft created the GUI. I heard it much more often
:wink:
There are a lot of replies in this thread which explain why I can hear that name in this context.
Best regards,
Eduard.

Mitchell Schoenbrun --------- > maschoen@pobox.com
\

I think you hit it. Well said.

Kevin

“Martin Zimmerman” <camz@passageway.com> wrote in message
news:Voyager.020207015506.25258A@wooga.wooga.passageway.com

Previously, Alec Saunders wrote in qdn.public.qnxrtp.advocacy:
Yes, QNX is not a name-brand. However, in awareness surveys amongst
embedded
operating systems developers (our key audience), we rank 5th in
awareness
globally, and in North America, and 3rd in awareness in Europe. We’d
like
that awareness to be higher amongst developers, and also amongst
business
decision makers in the organizations where they work. It’s my team’s
job to
make that happen.

I guess it is time for me to speak up. I’ll be blunt, and I won’t hold
back one iota.

Awareness amoungst developers doesn’t mean a damned thing. You don’t have
to
look very far to see proof, but I will spell it out for you anyway.

DEVELOPERS ARE NOT TYPICALLY THE BUSINESS DECISION MAKERS

As Alec points out, and as we all know, any developer that is worth his
salt takes one look at the architecture of QNX and almost immediately
recognises how good it is. You don’t have to do a damned thing to
“sell” a competent developer on the advantages of QNX, all you have to
do it get it in front of them and maybe give them some sample apps (with
source) to show them just how amazingly simple it is to take advantage
of the QNX arch. And the RTP “free for non-commercial” more or less
does that, although it is missing the “introduction” code & app samples
that point out in code just how good the arch is.

So the problem is the business decision makers. The problem is not that
they don’t understand what QNX is, or it’s advantages. The problem is
very simple…

THEY HAVE NEVER HEARD OF IT BEFORE

Business decisions are about risk, they are about time to market (TTM),
they are about time to quality (TTQ), and they are about time to cash
(TTC). As others have pointed out, OS arch isn’t even in there at this
level.

(for this next bit, bear with me, it DOES have relevance and is more
than just a story about my career and the company that I work for)

I’m a QNX consultant for hire, I do this part time, in the past it has
been full time, or even as an on-staff developer. My day job is with
Nortel Networks. I am certain that ALL of you know who Nortel is,
although I will bet that few of you know what we do, or what products we
make. The interesting point is that two or three years ago, most of you
had NEVER heard of Nortel.

…and that was bad. When I first started at Nortel, I was very soon
amazed at all the different products and technology they were
responsible for. The wallplates for the phone jacks the local telco
installed had NT (Northern Telecom) logos on the back of them, so did
all of my phones from the telco, and I discovered that so did many,
many, many other things. Things that I had used before, things I had
heard of. Hell, if you want to get a little technical… QSSL was
spawned by Nortel (Dan and Gord worked at Bell Northern Research,
Nortel’s R&D division at the time when they first came up with the
concept of the OS while working on similiar things at BNR). Look into
the source code trees for Linux IDE and other device drivers, you will
see the names of people from BNR, NT, and Nortel. IBDN/Bix structured
wiring, was from Nortel, several innovations now common in the
electronic circuit assembly process were pioneered at Nortel. They were
huge, they were everywhere…

AND… no one had even heard of them.

This should sound VERY familiar. It is a similiar position that QSSL is
currently facing, they are in quite a few places, they have a really
good product, they have really good support. …and they have NO
IDENTITY, and NO BRAND RECOGNITION.

Of course something happened at Nortel, we aquired (yes, I know the
trade press called it a merger, we were just being polite) Bay Networks,
and part of the deal was their CEO. The guy responsible for the
incredibly successful “intel inside” ad campaign. Nortel embarked on a
major awareness and brand identity campaign. You saw Nortel ads on tv,
you saw billboards, you opened the Globe & Mail or the Wall Street
Journal and you saw full page ads for Nortel Networks. I’m certain many
of you are familiar with them… the “What do you want the internet to
be?” and the “Come together” theme complete with the beatles tune.

Now, there was something interesting about those ads. Something a little
peculiar, or at least so people told me. They told me that the ads didn’t
tell them WHAT Nortel did, or even what we sold, they didn’t know what
message Nortel was trying to get accross.

The interesting thing is that they REMEMBERED the ads, they were
intrigued byw them, they wanted to know what Nortel was about, enough so
that they asked about it. They asked their friends, they visited the
website, they may have phoned us.

All of a sudden Nortel was a company that people recognised.

Our stock took off, split twice in a 2 year period climbed from $35 CDN
to over $120 CDN (if you calculate that out without the two splits, that
is the equivalent of going from $35 to $480).

The most important thing was that if you were in a meeting with business
decision makers and you mentioned Nortel, the first response wasn’t
“Who?”, but rather “Perhaps we should look into them”.

THAT IS WHAT QSSL NEEDS.

IT NEEDS IT DESPERATELY.
IT NEEDS IT YESTERDAY.

I really don’t think targetted advertising is going to do it. That will
reach the audience that you have already convinced, and it won’t do a
damned thing to the audience that those people (developers) need to
INFLUENCE, most developers haven’t got a clue how to influence the
business groups when they make their decisions. Most aren’t even in a
position (heirarchially) to exhert any influence that they might have.
It’s a sad, sad truth that you can have 10 people on staff in a company
like Nortel or Motorola and they can all tell “the business” that QNX is
great, and they they should try it, and that ONE SINGLE external
consultant can make the same reccomendation and presto, it gets
considered.

I (personally) think that QSSL needs to have some form of brand
awareness campaign. They should run ads on tv, targetted not at the
shows developers watch, but at the shows that business executives watch.
They should mention in those ads that QNX is behind the scenes in much
of their daily life, and that when people call 911, QNX is often
responsible for a timely dispatch of EMS personelle. They can use the
word “ROBUST”, then can say things like “THERE WHEN IT REALLY MATTERS”.
They shouldn’t say a damn thing about what it IS.

The need to have their name RECOGNISED, and that, in a nutshell is it.
The rest will take care of itself, provided that the call center people
that handle the inquiries and answer the emails, and design the website
have all the right answers and details.

I know who QSSL is, I know that QNX is the best damned OS that I well
ever see or work with. I, literally, don’t matter because I am NOT the
guy deciding to make a product, and I’m not the guy with the money to
fund it. I’m just the guy that could take QNX and make it a reality once
someone else decides that QNX is what they need. If I am lucky, I might
get to be one of the guys to advise the guy with the money, and he is the
one that matters. He is also the one that doesn’t know who or what QNX
is. That thats a problem, a really, really, really big problem.

Alec, if you do nothing else, solve this problem.

I’ll step off my soap box now, and I apologise for ranting, and
shouting.

Cheers,
Martin Zimmerman
QNX user/developer since 1985


Martin Zimmerman > camz@passageway.com
Camz Software Enterprises > www.passageway.com/camz/qnx/
QNX Programming & Consulting
\

Martin Zimmerman wrote:

Our stock took off, split twice in a 2 year period climbed from $35 CDN
to over $120 CDN (if you calculate that out without the two splits, that
is the equivalent of going from $35 to $480).

Convenient framing of time periods…

Adjusted for splits Nortels stock value is now below it’s opening
value for 1998.

I don’t pretend to be a CEO, but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to
realize that whatever it was that Nortel did, it sure didn’t work.

ps: During the same time period as Nortels meltdown QSSL grew their
revenues by 20%.

Previously, Rennie Allen wrote in qdn.public.qnxrtp.advocacy:

Our stock took off, split twice in a 2 year period climbed from $35 CDN
to over $120 CDN (if you calculate that out without the two splits, that
is the equivalent of going from $35 to $480).

Convenient framing of time periods…

Adjusted for splits Nortels stock value is now below it’s opening
value for 1998.

You are correct.

I don’t pretend to be a CEO, but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to
realize that whatever it was that Nortel did, it sure didn’t work.

I completely disagree, Nortel was impacted by the economic downturn, as a direct
result of reduced spending from telcos (Nortel’s main customers). The downturn
of the market is not and was not a result of any failure on Nortel’s part, quite
the other way around. The “dot com”, now known as “dot bomb” inspired intense
over-investment and growth of many companies beyond their ability to sustain.
Nortel grew to accomodate the REAL (not fictional) market, and then scaled back
when the market demand declined as dot-com’s transformed to dot-bombs.

The point I was making is that people recognise the name Nortel, and
that is the first and I would argue the most important step.

Nortel had to do SOMETHING right in order to grow their stock to that
$120CDN point (even if it did decline). That doesn’t happen by chance,
and all of the industry analysts described Nortel as “under valued”.
Then again, almost ALL of the tech companies in 2000/2001 were
unrealistically over valued (in terms of stock price). The ones that had
no real, intrinsic value are dead, the ones with real value are still
around. Nortel is still around.

Lets not let this distract us.

QNX needs brand recognition. I don’t care how they do it, just that they do.

If that means running ads on tv, then do it.

If that means print ads in national newspapers, then do it.

If that means colorful poster-sized ads in international airports, then do it.

If that means having QNX branding on the telematics consoles (ie. QNX
inside type thing), then they damned well better do it.

You get the picture.

I’ve been working with QNX for 16 years, for once I’d like someone to
not say “What?” when I mention “QNX”.

Cheers,
Camz.


Martin Zimmerman camz@passageway.com
Camz Software Enterprises www.passageway.com/camz/qnx/
QNX Programming & Consulting

Martin Zimmerman <camz@passageway.com> wrote:

Previously, Rennie Allen wrote in qdn.public.qnxrtp.advocacy:
Our stock took off, split twice in a 2 year period climbed from $35 CDN
to over $120 CDN (if you calculate that out without the two splits, that
is the equivalent of going from $35 to $480).

Convenient framing of time periods…

Adjusted for splits Nortels stock value is now below it’s opening
value for 1998.

You are correct.

I don’t pretend to be a CEO, but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to
realize that whatever it was that Nortel did, it sure didn’t work.

I completely disagree, Nortel was impacted by the economic downturn, as a direct
result of reduced spending from telcos (Nortel’s main customers). The downturn
of the market is not and was not a result of any failure on Nortel’s part, quite
the other way around. The “dot com”, now known as “dot bomb” inspired intense
over-investment and growth of many companies beyond their ability to sustain.
Nortel grew to accomodate the REAL (not fictional) market, and then scaled back
when the market demand declined as dot-com’s transformed to dot-bombs.

The downturn in the market, esp. its severity, is almost a direct function of
Nortel and other major vendors. They had, at one point, extended vast loans
in the millions of dollars per customer to help finance the purchases of their
own equipment. When the downturn happened, the financing fell through, and not
only did they not record the sales, but also reported a massive loss.
Thus, their own accounting practices exarcebated the problems.

This is called “leverage” in the junk bond business :slight_smile:

The point I was making is that people recognise the name Nortel, and
that is the first and I would argue the most important step.

Nortel had to do SOMETHING right in order to grow their stock to that
$120CDN point (even if it did decline). That doesn’t happen by chance,

Hype.

Are you suggesting QSSL should hype itself? :slight_smile:

and all of the industry analysts described Nortel as “under valued”.
Then again, almost ALL of the tech companies in 2000/2001 were
unrealistically over valued (in terms of stock price). The ones that had
no real, intrinsic value are dead, the ones with real value are still
around. Nortel is still around.

Nortel is effectively dead, based on its 90% devaluation. Would you consider
a 90% loss as an “investment” or as a loss? Have I got a mutual fund for you.
The Krten Mutual Fund will take your money, and promise you no more than a 10%
loss! I’ll simply swipe the 10% right off the top, and put it into a GIC (CD).
Then I’ll return your 90% and you’ll be happy, right? :slight_smile:

Lets not let this distract us.

Oh, c’mon :slight_smile:

QNX needs brand recognition. I don’t care how they do it, just that they do.

If that means running ads on tv, then do it.

Very expensive. Superbowl, for example, was USD$1.2M per 30 seconds.

If that means print ads in national newspapers, then do it.

If that means colorful poster-sized ads in international airports, then do it.

If that means having QNX branding on the telematics consoles (ie. QNX
inside type thing), then they damned well better do it.

You get the picture.

I’ve been working with QNX for 16 years, for once I’d like someone to
not say “What?” when I mention “QNX”.

I agree with you that QSSL needs brand name recognition. Perhaps if they’d
stop changing the product name from “QNX/Neutrino”, “Neutrino”, “QNX RTP”,
“QNX 6”, “QNX with/avec Neutrino and less filling too”…

:slight_smile:

Always willing to play devil’s advocate here…
-RK


Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316.
Realtime Systems Architecture, Books, Video-based and Instructor-led
Training and Consulting at www.parse.com.
Email my initials at parse dot com.

Martin Zimmerman wrote:


I don’t pretend to be a CEO, but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to
realize that whatever it was that Nortel did, it sure didn’t work.


I completely disagree, Nortel was impacted by the economic downturn, as a direct
result of reduced spending from telcos (Nortel’s main customers). The downturn
of the market is not and was not a result of any failure on Nortel’s part, quite
the other way around.

If Nortel’s management was not able to forsee what would happen and
prepare for it, then they failed (what exactly is it that a CEO is
supposed to do, if not steer the business through a changing
environment). If the market says you company is worth less now than it
was four years ago, then it is.

You didn’t seem to pay much attention to my other point which is that
over the same period QSSL has grown (not shrunk as Nortel has).

Now again, I’m not a “business leader” but my old farm boy common sense
tells me growing is better than shrinking.

Tottally agee.
I’ve seen more than one case where the technical decision is overridden
by the higher-up non-technical. No matter the cost.
Some examples
-QNX4 in existing application to be replaced by Nt/CE, at the cost of
millions. No matter the current solution is working fine…
-NT chosen rather than QNX4 in a realtime avionics system. Result-cost
overrun, time overrun by 2 years, and the product & division is a failure.

I’m sure there are many other examples.

As obstacles I can add in addition to to Martin’s awareness is the following (and this
has been said earlier in this thread):
-Window based cross development tools
-Linux based cross dev tools
-GUI tools that can make use of the Windows based GUI tools such as Delphi
-Better dev tools on QNX
-Event examination tools ala Dejaview

With development tools I mean especially IDE & debugger.

The above address the requirements of time to market/money. Many developers
are comfortable in the Windows environment (and increasingly Linux),
and to get those developers up to speed QNX must be more accessible.
In those environments (and let’s face it, those are the vast majority), installing
& running a separate QNX PC is not attractive.

On Thu, 7 Feb 2002 01:55:06 -0700, Martin Zimmerman <camz@passageway.com> wrote:

I guess it is time for me to speak up. I’ll be blunt, and I won’t hold
back one iota.

Awareness amoungst developers doesn’t mean a damned thing. You don’t have to
look very far to see proof, but I will spell it out for you anyway.

DEVELOPERS ARE NOT TYPICALLY THE BUSINESS DECISION MAKERS

“Martin Zimmerman” <camz@passageway.com> wrote in message

Lets not let this distract us.

QNX needs brand recognition. I don’t care how they do it, just that
they do.

If that means running ads on tv, then do it.

If that means print ads in national newspapers, then do it.

If that means colorful poster-sized ads in international airports, then do
it.

If that means having QNX branding on the telematics consoles (ie. QNX
inside type thing), then they damned well better do it.

You get the picture.

I’ve been working with QNX for 16 years, for once I’d like someone to
not say “What?” when I mention “QNX”.

Very well said !


Bill Caroselli – 1(626) 824-7983
Q-TPS Consulting
QTPS@EarthLink.net

Everyone is smart in hindsight. If everyone was that smart 1.5 years
ago, they’d sell all their stock then and by now be on Bahamas sipping
pinacolada, rather than looking for consultant jobs… I don’t remember
Rennie or Rob screaming 1.5 years ago that everyone is doing wrong
thing. Business is always a bit of gamble. Sometimes you win, sometimes
you lose. Good management allows you to win more often, but no
management can make you win always.

Yes steering is what CEO is supposed to do, but like a big ship a big
company can not be turned very quickly and sometimes environment changes
just faster than that. Suppose you’re Nortel CEO and it is late 1999.
You’re seeing incredibly growing market and your orders are way above
shipments. How do you steer? If you ignore it you lose market share,
you’ll be blamed for failing to manage manufacturing capacity and fired.
Not to ignore it means expand manufacturing and hire people. So you do.
Then comes summer-fall of 2000, your stock is sky high, yet the downturn
is just around the corner. How do you steer? Suppose you know about
downturn coming (lucky you). To avoid sharp fall you’d have to cut off
manufacturing, start selling off facilities and letting thousands of
people go BACK THEN! Again, you’d very likely be fired for doing that
before everyone realizes that was right thing to do.

So, yes Nortel shrank by 90%, but that just means they are more or less
back to their original value. And yes Motorola has posted its first
yearly loss in 2001 since 1930s. I don’t think however either one can be
called ‘dead’. They were overvalued and there were reasons for that. Now
they (among others) are undervalued because people do not like to lose.
That will pass too.

Now to back to QNX. They were in large part immune to those effects
being private company. Nobody can fire their CEO, he manages his own
money so he’s free in his decisions. There is no stock, so value of
company is not undermined by chaotic stock market. In situation when
every public company is rolling down it is easier for private company to
gain. Bad news is, when public ones get back on their feet they are
going to dwarf private ones quite soon.

  • igor

Rennie Allen wrote:

Martin Zimmerman wrote:

I don’t pretend to be a CEO, but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to
realize that whatever it was that Nortel did, it sure didn’t work.


I completely disagree, Nortel was impacted by the economic downturn, as a direct
result of reduced spending from telcos (Nortel’s main customers). The downturn
of the market is not and was not a result of any failure on Nortel’s part, quite
the other way around.

If Nortel’s management was not able to forsee what would happen and
prepare for it, then they failed (what exactly is it that a CEO is
supposed to do, if not steer the business through a changing
environment). If the market says you company is worth less now than it
was four years ago, then it is.

You didn’t seem to pay much attention to my other point which is that
over the same period QSSL has grown (not shrunk as Nortel has).

Now again, I’m not a “business leader” but my old farm boy common sense
tells me growing is better than shrinking.

Igor Kovalenko wrote:

Everyone is smart in hindsight. If everyone was that smart 1.5 years
ago, they’d sell all their stock then and by now be on Bahamas sipping
pinacolada, rather than looking for consultant jobs… I don’t remember
Rennie or Rob screaming 1.5 years ago that everyone is doing wrong
thing. Business is always a bit of gamble. Sometimes you win, sometimes
you lose. Good management allows you to win more often, but no
management can make you win always.

Bad memory. If you google the qnx newsgroup you’ll see my views on the
subject from about 2 years ago (when RedHat went public). Some bonehead
was screaming about how QSSL should go public, and “look how RedHat is a
$8 billion company”… bla bla bla… From $150.00 on Jan 1 2000, RHAT
is now $7.20 (that’s a worse drop then Nortel btw).

What we are talking about is the management capability of the company.
I say that Nortels management did not perform as well as QSSL
management. Would it be great if QNX got more name recognition ? Sure.
Could QSSL management do better ? Yes. Should QSSL look to emulate
Nortels performance over the past four years ? I don’t think so.

Yes steering is what CEO is supposed to do, but like a big ship a big
company can not be turned very quickly and sometimes environment changes

Was lack of manueverability any excuse for Captain Joseph Hazelwood ? I
don’t seem to recall a lot of people making excuses for him after he
plowed the Exxon Valdez into a reef…

just faster than that. Suppose you’re Nortel CEO and it is late 1999.
You’re seeing incredibly growing market and your orders are way above
shipments. How do you steer? If you ignore it you lose market share,
you’ll be blamed for failing to manage manufacturing capacity and fired.
Not to ignore it means expand manufacturing and hire people. So you do.
Then comes summer-fall of 2000, your stock is sky high, yet the downturn
is just around the corner. How do you steer? Suppose you know about
downturn coming (lucky you). To avoid sharp fall you’d have to cut off
manufacturing, start selling off facilities and letting thousands of
people go BACK THEN! Again, you’d very likely be fired for doing that
before everyone realizes that was right thing to do.

I didn’t say the job was easy. Only that over the last 4 years QSSL has
fared much better than Nortel - end of story.

Rennie Allen wrote:

Had time to look my post up, was on 1999/12/09, and here’s the contents.


John Pham wrote in message <82osds$ncj@coco.eng.octel.com>…

Here’s some fire for the open source

RHAT today worth $272 a share or has a market cap of $18 Billions
VaLinux today worth $269 a share probably has a market cap of
$15-18Billions

that’s LINUX (open source) to QNX closed source.

That’s moron investors; it has nothing to do with open vs. closed source.
Red Hat has a market cap of ~20 Billion US dollars, but an EPS of -0.01.
This is not sane. QNX is a private company, but I know for a fact that they
have positive earnings. If QNX were publicly traded, I would have a large
(relative to my portfolio :slight_smile: long position; I fully intend to have a large
short position on RHAT, as soon as I see the madness starting to wane.

Rennie

“Alex Cellarius” <acellarius@systems104-don’t-you-spam-me!.co.za> wrote in
message news:1103_1013115227@pentiumii…

-Window based cross development tools
-Linux based cross dev tools
-GUI tools that can make use of the Windows based GUI tools such as Delphi
-Better dev tools on QNX
-Event examination tools ala Dejaview

With development tools I mean especially IDE & debugger.

Totally agree, cross platform development - the best invention since sliced
bread!

The above address the requirements of time to market/money. Many
developers
are comfortable in the Windows environment (and increasingly Linux),
and to get those developers up to speed QNX must be more accessible.
In those environments (and let’s face it, those are the vast majority),
installing
& running a separate QNX PC is not attractive.

Add there administration and maintanance cost and all other “delights”
of having heterogeneous environment, that would be enough to reject QNX
at the early stage of an evaluation process.

cheers,
Igor

“Rennie Allen” <rallen@csical.com> wrote in message
news:3C6309AD.4000603@csical.com

Rennie Allen wrote:

Had time to look my post up, was on 1999/12/09, and here’s the contents.



John Pham wrote in message <82osds$> ncj@coco.eng.octel.com> >…
Here’s some fire for the open source

RHAT today worth $272 a share or has a market cap of $18 Billions
VaLinux today worth $269 a share probably has a market cap of
$15-18Billions

that’s LINUX (open source) to QNX closed source.

That’s moron investors; it has nothing to do with open vs. closed source.
Red Hat has a market cap of ~20 Billion US dollars, but an EPS of -0.01.
This is not sane. QNX is a private company, but I know for a fact that
they
have positive earnings. If QNX were publicly traded, I would have a large
(relative to my portfolio > :slight_smile: > long position; I fully intend to have a
large
short position on RHAT, as soon as I see the madness starting to wane.

Congradulations on that short.

$20 Bil. is insane for a company that is not yet profitable. Just shows, P.
T. Barnum was right.


Bill Caroselli – 1(626) 824-7983
Q-TPS Consulting
QTPS@EarthLink.net